Off duty Mass. policeman shoots woman while hunting...........

[rocketsocks]

I agree mt mike,ya know when this is all said and done I'm sure we all find some things out that we didn't know,a lot of assuming here in the early stages.Nothing wrong with that just bouncing idea off each other.I did not know it was a muzzle loader I figured it was buck shot.Not easy to put a single projectile where you want it to go.makes it a little more damning I think.

[Sarcasm the elf]

[QUOTE=4eyedbuzzard;1235552]

Sheisn't dead. She was shot in the hip with his .50 muzzle loader. She was/is hospitalized and it sounds like she will make a full recovery. He (the cop) was also the one who immediately called 911 and administered first aid. He FU'ed big time, but did do the right thing in response. It was an accident (obviously he didn't start out that day to shoot a person), but one that he caused. I think he is 100% at fault. Others seem to feel that, unless I am interpreting their posts incorrectly, because the victim wasn't wearing blaze orange or carrying a light she was also somewhat negligent (but maybe not "to blame"?). It's gotten a bit confusing.

First off thanks for pointing out tha she is alive and hopefully making a recovery. Based on the other threadposts I had gotten the idea that she died. Second, just for the record I agree with you 100%, I hope none of us are blaming the victim. For my part, I think that wearing blaze orange or having a flashlight during hunting season is a good idea since I think that it's worh it to take precautions to keep myself safe from other peoples negligence. Whether or not she took these precautions does not change the fact that she was the victim and that based on the facts presented so far this doesn't sound like it is her fault in the slightest.

[Snowleopard]

The woman's hip was broken by the shot. TV news reported that her life is not in danger, but she may have a permanent limp.

A lesson for hikers is that we should be very careful for the 30 to 45 minutes after sunset in areas where there is a lot of hunting. Wear blaze orange, but don't count on it being seen once it gets dark. Sunset is a popular time for hunting: the deer tend to come out to feed around sunset and some local hunters can hunt after work.

Other states use the 30 minute before sunrise till 30 minutes after sunset rule: a quick look on the web shows at least VA and PA. I think that is marginal in open terrain but crazy in dense forest.

I'm not sure what is best to do at dusk. Probably make human noises or turn on a headlamp or flashlight before we really need it to see to walk. I wonder if the reflective material on the vests that bicyclists or highway workers use shows at dusk than blaze orange?

In the olden days I didn't worry about bow and muzzle loader deer seasons. According to people I've asked at hunter/outdoor shops, current bows and muzzle loaders are much more powerful than the equipment my father used in the 70s. They've told me that the modern muzzle loaders are almost as powerful as rifles. Do those of you knowledgeable about guns agree with that?

[Tinker]

From Snowleopard:

"I wonder if the reflective material on the vests that bicyclists or highway workers use shows at dusk than blaze orange?"

Unfortunately, it wouldn't, unless the hunter was using a flashlight, which probably would be poaching in any case. I use reflective bicycle clothing which I hang up on the porch to dry and air out. If there is no light beam directed at it, it is very hard to see the difference between the greenish yellow of the safety color and the strips of 3M material sewn in strategic places.

I have to admit that I feel a little safer hiking during muzzle loader and archery season than during shotgun season (and the feedback I get from DEM workers when I asked to use a local primitive campsite during shotgun season bears this out - basically, no - it wouldn't be safe and we wouldn't want an accident to reflective negatively on hunters ).
Archers stand to lose an expensive arrow if they miss and can't find it.
Muzzle loaders have one shot and then they have to reload, so they don't want to miss and spook the animal because they won't get a second shot (or so I thought).
Apparently, my feelings are unjustified, given the circumstances of this incident (almost said "accident").

Negligence and ignorance was involved (no alcohol needed). :|

[atmilkman]

In Montana during the Bowhunters safety course we had to take a seperate test in bear identification to distinguish the difference between a black and a grizzly. Big time fine if you shoot the wrong one. Maybe they should start a seperate test for identifying the difference between a human and an animal, but then again, some would just say oh well, what the hell, I'll just pay the fine, it's only a human.

[The Solemates]

It may be called an accident in that it wasn't intentional but, come on, even if he thought the dogs were deer, he shot a person. Hunting after sunset is an absurd law.

i was about to ask that. its illegal to hunt in the dark in MA right?

this guy is a moron and deserves prosecution. we should have laws concerning this. every year i cant believe we do not. i advocate hunting, but still think that someone should be prosecuted for shooting another human....accident or not.

[The Solemates]

The decision not to wear blaze orange when its not required, but when it's smart to do so, comes down to this - - Do you want to be right? Or do you want to be dead right?

And I agree the shooter should be prosecuted, just like anyone else. Being a law enforcement officer should not give him a pass.

this woman was in her back yard. do you wear blaze in your back yard? i live out in the sticks and i dont....

[The Solemates]

The woman's hip was broken by the shot. TV news reported that her life is not in danger, but she may have a permanent limp.

25% of people over the age of 60 who sustain a hip fracture die within one year.
75% of people over the age of 60 who sustain a hip fracture die within three years.

her life IS in danger. its serious business. i work in orthopaedics and see if every day.

[Creek Dancer]

this woman was in her back yard. do you wear blaze in your back yard? i live out in the sticks and i dont....

I would if I knew that there may be hunters on my property as someone pointed out there were in this case. Sure, I wouldn't be required to do so, but I would and I would want my familty to do so as well. Wouldn't you want your family to be safe?

[4eyedbuzzard]

25% of people over the age of 60 who sustain a hip fracture die within one year.
75% of people over the age of 60 who sustain a hip fracture die within three years.

her life IS in danger. its serious business. i work in orthopaedics and see if every day.

Serious questions, not trolling for an argument:

How many of those that die within one or three years though had prior medical conditions that were significant in leading to their broken hips? For example, lots of hip fractures are fall related, and I have a suspicion that many of those falls are caused indirectly by those underlying medical conditions.

"Over 60" is a pretty broad category that encompasses everyone from 60 to death. Those in both good health and bad. I would honestly think that her medical condition prior to the GSW may more determine her lifespan than the injury, provided there are no immediate complications.

Not downplaying the seriousness of a broken hip or GSW, just wondering about your thought regarding my take on this.

[Pedaling Fool]

Serious questions, not trolling for an argument:

How many of those that die within one or three years though had prior medical conditions that were significant in leading to their broken hips? For example, lots of hip fractures are fall related, and I have a suspicion that many of those falls are caused indirectly by those underlying medical conditions.

"Over 60" is a pretty broad category that encompasses everyone from 60 to death. Those in both good health and bad. I would honestly think that her medical condition prior to the GSW may more determine her lifespan than the injury, provided there are no immediate complications.

Not downplaying the seriousness of a broken hip or GSW, just wondering about your thought regarding my take on this.

Bingo!


.

[MuddyWaters]

Yes the hunter was wrong. I think that a significant portion of the people in the world are either absolute idiots, or criminals, and that belief is reinforced often.

The hunter committed no real crime. Accidents arent usually crimes which are punished, its a civil matter. Thats a different story.

Yes, if you are in the woods in hunting season, you need to be aware and careful, even in your own yard if there is hunting around you. See first statement.

You can see fine for a long time after official sunset. Many persons use "cant see anymore" as time to stop, incorrectly. Few look up the official sunset time every day. I have remained on stand for an hour after sunset before and still had plenty of light to see on full moon evenings. (not intending to shoot, but watching does, etc in front of me in a food plot)

Yes injuries are bad for elderly. A broken ankle started my own fathers downhill slide. Elderly people lose a great deal of strength every day they are in a hospital bed, a Dr told me 6wks to fully recover from single day in hospital. My father NEVER recovered at 72 from broken ankle.

[Lone Wolf]

, lots of hip fractures are fall related, and I have a suspicion that many of those falls are caused indirectly by those underlying medical conditions.

nope. most hips break, then they fall

[4eyedbuzzard]

nope. most hips break, then they fall

Not according to the medical journals I've read.

[Kookork]

nope. most hips break, then they fall

I am wondering about the source of your statement?

I break my hip if you are right!!!

There are myriad of subjects that you as an experienced respected hiker have a right to talk about but hip fracture and medical issues? leave it to medical experts.

[Rasty]

Most likely her only recoarse will be civil court. I'm going to assume it's treated the same as hitting a bicycle with a car. No big deal in most states. My wifes uncle was killed in July while riding his bike on an open stretch of road (4 lanes straight for close to a mile) and no charges we filed by the DA. It looks like the era of personal responsability is over. At most if covered by his home owners insurance maybe his rate will go up a little. Life in America is not very valuable.

[Feral Bill]

The hunter committed no real crime. Accidents arent usually crimes which are punished, its a civil matter. Thats a different story.

I'm not a lawyer, let alone a MA lawyer, but I am pretty confident that negligent discharge of a firearm is a crime, and dead certain that poaching is. I see this as a case of the law enforcement communty protecting its own, which is all to common.Section 752.863a - Reckless, wanton use or negligent discharge of firearm; penalty.



CARELESS, RECKLESS, OR NEGLIGENT USE OF FIREARMS (EXCERPT)
Act 45 of 1952

752.863a Reckless, wanton use or negligent discharge of firearm; penalty.Sec. 3.
Any person who shall recklessly or heedlessly or wilfully or wantonly use, carry, handle or discharge any firearm without due caution and circumspection for the rights, safety or property of others shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

[Rasty]

Kookork is correct on this one.

I looked it up hoping to see Kookork have to post a video of him breaking his hip. I can see it now. Might take ten or twelve tries falling down to make it work depending on Kookork's physical condition and stamina.

Saying the phrase "I've fallen down and can't get up" after each attempt would add much drama!

Just having a little fun with you Kookork.

nope. most hips break, then they fall

I am wondering about the source of your statement?

I break my hip if you are right!!!

There are myriad of subjects that you as an experienced respected hiker have a right to talk about but hip fracture and medical issues? leave it to medical experts.

[Kookork]

We have a saying in Persian that says : Thousands of friends is not enough but one enemy is more than enough.

It seems I made more enemy here in WB than friends. It has been the direct consequence of my reckless( and sometimes inappropriate) approach to this community and I am here to make it right.

My new year resolution is being respectful to other people's Ideas and believes but old habits die hard bro.

Ps: I consider you a friend rastraikis and I like most of your posts to be honest, but I love my hip more, unbroken of coarse. But as one of posters once said rightfully about me: I love Drama.

[Rasty]

Thanks!

It would be funny video though. Do you know the phrase "I've fallen and can't get up"? It is from a TV commercial about ten years ago for those medical alert necklaces for the elderly.

We have a saying in Persian that says : Thousands of friends is not enough but one enemy is more than enough.

It seems I made more enemy here in WB than friends. It has been the direct consequence of my reckless( and sometimes inappropriate) approach to this community and I am here to make it right.

My new year resolution is being respectful to other people's Ideas and believes but old habits die hard bro.

Ps: I consider you a friend rastraikis and I like most of your posts to be honest, but I love my hip more, unbroken of coarse. But as one of posters once said rightfully about me: I love Drama.