Off duty Mass. policeman shoots woman while hunting...........

[rocketsocks]

I think you got it.Why lawyers tell you what you "can't"do,and then throw a "NOT"in there is at beat disingenuous,unless your another lawyer this makes no effin sense.And before you ask my head is fine.......but my foot is killin me.

[Frog]

There's only one thing to say here. IF YOU CAN'T TELL WHAT YOU ARE SHOOTING AT YOU DON'T SHOOT.

[bronconite]

I would bet money ($1) that this is lawer speak for only allowing hunters and trappers on the game land for those dates. When you read the entire exceptions part it comes across that way. The bet part is a joke in case betting is also illegal.

You would lose that bet. Neither the State of PA nor the Game Commission discourage non-hunters/trappers from being present on Game Lands during the dates specified in the code or any particular hunting season. There are some restrictions on non hunters/trappers during certain seasons related to bicycles and horses, but none for general use on foot.

[bronconite]

I think you got it.Why lawyers tell you what you "can't"do,and then throw a "NOT"in there is at beat disingenuous,unless your another lawyer this makes no effin sense.And before you ask my head is fine.......but my foot is killin me.

You make it sound as if they used a double negative, which they did not. The "NOT" is used to differentiate between those engaged in legal hunting/trapping and those who are not. While I agree, laws are often written in such a way that they are very hard to understand, though I don't believe that to be the case here. Consult you 8th grade English teacher if you must, it means exactly what it says.

[rocketsocks]

I did not explain that very well,and not so sure a second go at it would be of any help.Can't ask my 8th grade teach cause I only went to 5th,and "double noogies' that's what that's called thanks.Bronc, I think were gonna have to agree to disagree,for now any way.And if I should discover that you are in fact correct,I'll buy you an ice cream.How that sound?boy I sure stepped in it this time

[rocketsocks]

135.41(21)except on sundays,be present on state game lands...when not engaged in lawful hunting.I don't man......What flavor do you like?

[rocketsocks]

I'm a victim of lysdexia I can't tell my left right my from.Long a sing long a sing body every long a sing.

[Migrating Bird]

Anybody know how the woman is doing? Has there been any additional considerations for charging the hunter?

[Snowleopard]

The shooting is still being investigated by the Massachusetts Environmental Police (basically game wardens/rangers with law enforcement powers).
She's still in intensive care and on her fifth surgery.

Blair was shot with a .50 caliber lead ball, resulting in a fractured pelvis, a 10-inch wound and the likelihood of a permanent limp with chronic pain. She is expected to undergo her fifth surgery Friday as a result of the incident.

Blair, 66, remains in Rhode Island Hospital as she undergoes a series of operations to treat her gunshot wound and deal with the infection that came with it. Originally doctors expected her to be released from the hospital on Jan. 5, her family said; now, there is no timetable for her to move on to a rehabilitation center and to go home.

“They've been debriding, taking infection out,” said her husband, Jim Blair, who has been visiting her twice a day. “The doctors are taking damaged flesh and infected tissue out. They are trying to stay ahead of infection, and she remains on antibiotics, and whenever they find infection they go in and take more out.”

Blair underwent surgery on the night of the shooting incident, had another surgery to address infection on the following Friday, and then further surgery was conducted this Monday and Wednesday.

“The doctors tell me she's coming along,” said Jim Blair, who himself is a lifelong hunter and state certified firearms instructor. “You only have two choices when you are ill. You come along, or you die. She is still in the trauma and intensive care (unit), and she’s making progress.”

Jim Blair said the twice-daily visits to his wife last 15 minutes before she falls asleep. Cheryl Blair remains on pain medication and needs her rest, he said.

http://www.enterprisenews.com/topsto...orton-shooting

[Tinker]

I'm a victim of lysdexia I can't tell my left right my from.Long a sing long a sing body every long a sing.

Te moo. Hife is lard.

[Rain Man]

I think you got it.Why lawyers tell you what you "can't"do,and then throw a "NOT"in there is at beat disingenuous,unless your another lawyer this makes no effin sense.And before you ask my head is fine.......but my foot is killin me.

Why are you beating up on lawyers? Beat up on LEGISLATORS! They wrote the law. I'm not any happier with how legislators write statutes than you are.

Lawyer RainMan

.

[rocketsocks]

Stop the ride I want to get off.Sorry Rain Man.You are exempt...if you wear orange.Hife shore kan be lard you want some ice cream too?Pm with address and flavor.Cone,bar or bowl.

[Lilred]

I would bet money ($1) that this is lawer speak for only allowing hunters and trappers on the game land for those dates. When you read the entire exceptions part it comes across that way. The bet part is a joke in case betting is also illegal.

If I'm not mistaken, when the word "and" is used, it means that BOTH conditions must be met. When the word "or" is used, it means that either condition can be met. Since "and" is used in the law, then according to the rules of English, Both conditions must be meant. So that means that you must be a hunter and be wearing orange to be on the land during the time stated.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Originally Posted by rastraikis

That PA law states that only hunters and trappers may be on game lands from 11/15 to 12/15. It also states clothing that the hunters or trappers must wear.

Uh ... as I read it, it doesn't say only hunters and trappers can be on game land. Just says others must wear orange.

... it is unlawful to: * * * (21) ... be present on State game lands from November 15 through December 15 inclusive when not engaged in lawful hunting or trapping and fail to wear a minimum of 250 square inches of daylight fluorescent orange-colored material ....

Literally, it says you can't be there (1) when not hunting AND (2) failing to wear orange. Put another way, you can be there (1) when hunting OR (2) when wearing orange.

Rain Man

Based on my experience reading (far too many) legal documents, Rain Man's interpretation is correct. But I'm no attorney...

Now I'm sure there's someone on this board that lives and hikes in Pennsylvania, can they please speak up, or are they having too much fun watching all of us from out of state argue about the interpretation of their laws?

[rocketsocks]

Yes, and "Shall" means "must".While 135.41(21)as stated above may sound like it refers to all persons on the state game lands (hunting or not),to wear orange,It is my contenison that it is only the hunter for whom this law was written.Ex;I'm walking on state game land during hunting season and meet up with a hunter and a WCO,the hunter who is not wear the required orange gets a ticket for failure,I do not(but are pretty damn foolish for failure to do so)If you would like some ice cream,get in line please.

[rocketsocks]

I can't believe I got back on this ride, I hate this ride!

[Sarcasm the elf]

I can't believe I got back on this ride, I hate this ride!

I know, I can't believe I let myself get sucked in this far into the discussion

[rocketsocks]

OK,I just spoke to a family member and explained the situation.His response was,"well based on what information you gave me",
"How much ice cream do you have to buy"?F---- me running.SO PUBLICLY I would like say Broncoite,RainMan and Sarcasm the elf(because you were so far sucked in)What Flavor Do You Want?oh yah and" I WAS WRONG"!and do not wish to continue with this thread as I'm just to damn embarrassed.Thank you all for coming.

[Rain Man]

I think this explains nicely why criminals sometimes get off on "technicalities." If we all can't understand the statute, how can a jury say beyond a reasonable doubt that someone violated it? The lawyers commonly are blamed when this is the outcome, but it's the legislators and police who create then enforce the game, not the lawyers.

RainMan

.

[rocketsocks]

I think this explains nicely why criminals sometimes get off on "technicalities." If we all can't understand the statute, how can a jury say beyond a reasonable doubt that someone violated it? The lawyers commonly are blamed when this is the outcome, but it's the legislators and police who create then enforce the game, not the lawyers.

RainMan

.

Good point,Hey Rain Man,sent you a PM