Fleece or "puffy' Layer???

[HT1]

I'm trying to put together my winter clothes for a 29 FEB NOBO start, living in Florida, cold weather testing is not going real well.

.
I have a complete set of USGI Polartec fleece, and (PUFFY LAYER) a USGI quilted m-65 jacket liner modified by sealing the armpits, and a pair of swissGI quilted trousers. all synthetic
.
I weighed each outfit, the puffy layer was 10 Oz lighter.

any help on which will be warmer? dry faster, be best for hiking in, or sleeping in


Thanks in advance

HT1

[bigcranky]

In general, a puffy layer is warmer than fleece of the same weight, or even heavier fleece. It's generally not a good idea to hike in one's insulation layer, as it will get wet from sweat and then you have nothing to put on in camp.

Here's what I do for hiking in the Southern Appalachians in late February and March:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...795#post487795

[mirabela]

I've kind of shifted over to synthetic puffy stuff myself (live in VT, hike four seasons) but either will work. For me, the driving impetus was weight and bulk. The puffy stuff does such a nice job of stuffing and filling out the open spaces in a backpack ... I think fleece dries a little quicker, but it seems like the puffy stuff also takes longer to get really wet. Comparable thicknesses are comparably warm, it seems to me, and they're both comfortable enough. I don't know the particulars of how warm or cool you run, but I rarely do any actual *hiking* in either, even in the northeast in the dead of winter. Down to about 10 or 15F when I'm on the move I'm usually in a baselayer, shell pants and a windshirt; the puffy (a fatter one than what you're talking about here) goes on the instant I stop.

I thru-hiked starting March 10, and in my experience the synth quilted stuff you're talking about (I'm familiar with those liners, and they're a great deal, especially if you can sew) would have been just about perfect.

[Del Q]

I have not been out in sub 20 degree weather much, my layering system is:

Merino wool tee shirt
Lightweight capilene long sleeve
Mont Bell synthetic jacket - about 8 oz I think
Go Lite wind shirt
Rain jacket - North Face Anorac - about 7 oz I think

Long Johns - merino wool
Rain Pants

As long as I am hydrated and have ample calories, I am never really cold while I am moving or on breaks........have learned to get into my sleeping bag ASAP once I stop in really cold weather, easier to stay warm than to get warm!

I find that when it is really cold and semi-uncomfortable is in the am when breaking camp & while packing up...........once I get moving after 10-15 minutes I am fine, regardless of temperature. Have learned to leave with not too many layers.

[Tenderheart]

I would agree with the puffy vote. Fleece is not very compressible and is not very windproof. Puffy should be much warmer, IMO.

[Flowers]

I live in Florida also, and I know what you mean about not being able to test cold weather gear. I'm actually about to go walk on the beach in boardshorts in an hour, so I'm about as far from cold as you can get here. I've tried to put my layering system together from what I've found for reference online.

Top:
Northface Hyactive Warm baselayer
Columbia Meeker Peak windshirt
Patagonia R1 pullover
Columbia Tull Creek Shell
(Marmot Zeus 800 fill puffy for camp)

Head & Hands:
Columbia Omni Heat Balaclava
Columbia Omni Heat Fast trek hat
Columbia Omni Heat Fast trek gloves

Bottom:
Exofficio Shorts
Worldwide Sportsman Thermals
Worldwide Sportsman Convertible Pants

I went to Mississippi and slept outside when it got to the high 20s, and was fine. I won't get much more testing before I head out, but I'm thinking it will be fine.

[Smooth & Wasabi]

I have switched to puffies for most trips. I am not sure if I am thinking of the same field jacket liner, if I am it is relatively thin and has a fairly low collar. Make sure it will be warm enough alone for you and your sleep system. I encountered a low of 9 degrees in the begining of march 10 years ago. I was fine(only one close night) with a slightly thinner insulated top, no insulated pants and a twenty degree bag but I sleep warm. Have fun.

[ljcsov]

I just got myself this season an S.D. Gnar hoody. Even though its only considered a "down sweater", it's incredibly warm. It's warmer than my TNF Denali and any other piece of fleece I have. I'd highly recommend getting yourself a down jacket of some sort.

[mirabela]

I'll play devil's advocate re: the above post and advocate for synthetic fill over down. Down is great, but once it gets damp you're screwed -- and in the context of an AT thru-hike I can just about promise you're going to get into situations where it is cold as well as quite difficult to keep everything dry.

I like down as much as the next guy, but IMO it's the wrong tool for the job here.

[Kerosene]

I rely on a layering system, similar to what Flowers uses in Post #6, down to freezing with an R1 fleece and no puffy. Then again, I grew up in the North and you may need that puffy. I do bring a puffy if I expect temps to be well below freezing during the day, but I never walk in my puffy (a Montbell down sweater - 7.5 oz) as it would quickly become wet with perspiration. I have a very hard time moderating my pace to avoid perspiring, even on very cold days, so I make sure that all my camp clothes stay dry. I'm unwilling to put up with the extra weight of synthetic fill, but then again I'm typically hiking in the spring and fall.

[rocketsocks]

Perhaps use both.Currently using, fleece(mid layer),semi puffy outer layer (synthetic ems brand primaloft one)and rain shell,all have pit zips and allow me to regulate through varying temperature ranges,hiking speeds and wind conditions.Thus far,workin' pretty well.

[MNBackpacker]

You can't go wrong with a MontBell midlayer. Cost is the only downside in my opinion.

[kanga]

after years and years of fleece, i have finally gone puffy. i feel retarded for not doing it sooner. use medium layers for hiking. i use a merino long sleeve shirt with a poly short sleeve over it and have a windresistant something for quick stops/breaks. also, merino gloves stuffed in the pocket of said windbreaker-ish thingie. only use your down for camp or for extended stops (lunch) to keep your core temp up. that being said, by ditching my fleece tops and pants, i've shaved over a pound off my pack and i'm 400 times warmer. it was worth the money i had to spend.

[Chaco Taco]

love my montbell. Spend the extra money, so much easier and more comfortable

[kanga]

which one do you have? i've had the ul down inner for awhile but the older i get, the colder i get in camp and it's just not cutting it this winter. under 30* and i need more. i do love it though. recently picked up a golite roan when they had that sale. can't wait to test it out!

[Tinker]

I'm trying to put together my winter clothes for a 29 FEB NOBO start, living in Florida, cold weather testing is not going real well.

.
I have a complete set of USGI Polartec fleece, and (PUFFY LAYER) a USGI quilted m-65 jacket liner modified by sealing the armpits, and a pair of swissGI quilted trousers. all synthetic
.
I weighed each outfit, the puffy layer was 10 Oz lighter.

any help on which will be warmer? dry faster, be best for hiking in, or sleeping in
Thanks in advance
HT1

Unfortunately, I'd have to say that both should be the answer - the fleece (with a windbreaker) for hiking in, and a puffy layer for sleeping in. You might want to make your puffy layer a down vest to save a few ozs. If your fleece is still basically dry (except for sweat) at the end of the day, you can wear your vest over it to sleep in. If it's a bit sweaty, you can wear it around camp while preparing supper with other garments over it so that it will dry a bit before you go to bed. Do not go to bed with damp clothing because it will chill you and may make your sleeping bag damp, so you'll have to dry that, too. If the next day promises to be sunny, you may be able to dry any damp articles while you take lunch. Keep your "puffy" layer dry at all costs, because you should be able to count on it during nights which become colder than you expected.
Also, fwiw, I usually carry a very light fleece jacket -100wt. in summer and 200wt. in colder weather - 300 wt. is too heavy (and bulky) to justify taking up room in your pack.

[Chaco Taco]

which one do you have? i've had the ul down inner for awhile but the older i get, the colder i get in camp and it's just not cutting it this winter. under 30* and i need more. i do love it though. recently picked up a golite roan when they had that sale. can't wait to test it out!

Alpine Light 800 fill. I love it. Got it a couple of years ago. The collar and the pockets are nice, dont usually keep gloves in the pockets cuz they are so warm, but I might up here. I wore it over Franconia in the fall and it kept me comfortable in high winds when I got cold, I put on my rain jacket (EMS Thunderhead). I love that over top for a little extra comfort. I will typically wear that in camp too if I get a chill then just ditch in the foot of my sleeping bag. If I know it's going to rain, I get a little nervous about it getting too wet. Never had anything bad happen when it has gotten wet, dries in my bag just fine. Ill spray it down with something every once in awhile. Great jacket. Never been cold in it.


I was wondering about the Golites. They had em on sale at some point, dirt cheap.

[rocketsocks]

Unfortunately, I'd have to say that both should be the answer - the fleece (with a windbreaker) for hiking in, and a puffy layer for sleeping in. You might want to make your puffy layer a down vest to save a few ozs. If your fleece is still basically dry (except for sweat) at the end of the day, you can wear your vest over it to sleep in. If it's a bit sweaty, you can wear it around camp while preparing supper with other garments over it so that it will dry a bit before you go to bed. Do not go to bed with damp clothing because it will chill you and may make your sleeping bag damp, so you'll have to dry that, too. If the next day promises to be sunny, you may be able to dry any damp articles while you take lunch. Keep your "puffy" layer dry at all costs, because you should be able to count on it during nights which become colder than you expected.
Also, fwiw, I usually carry a very light fleece jacket -100wt. in summer and 200wt. in colder weather - 300 wt. is too heavy (and bulky) to justify taking up room in your pack.

Tinker,you bring up a very good point.If when hiking I sweat(and I always do)and take my base layer off,it then takes all night to dry.If on the other hand,when done hiking I mill around a little while,(and it doesn't take to long)maybe even take a walk that does not require up hills or the like,a slow sounder,my base layer dries very quickly even allowing me to continue hiking in my now newly dried clothes.This has become part of my ritual and if I know the area where hiking,(or can infer from map)I try to take it slow while approaching camp,lunch or a particular vista where I may want to stop and spend some time dry and comfortable.

[rocketsocks]

Alpine Light 800 fill. I love it. Got it a couple of years ago. The collar and the pockets are nice, dont usually keep gloves in the pockets cuz they are so warm, but I might up here. I wore it over Franconia in the fall and it kept me comfortable in high winds when I got cold, I put on my rain jacket (EMS Thunderhead). I love that over top for a little extra comfort. I will typically wear that in camp too if I get a chill then just ditch in the foot of my sleeping bag. If I know it's going to rain, I get a little nervous about it getting too wet. Never had anything bad happen when it has gotten wet, dries in my bag just fine. Ill spray it down with something every once in awhile. Great jacket. Never been cold in it.


I was wondering about the Golites. They had em on sale at some point, dirt cheap.

Chaco,I too have the "Thunderhead rain jacket"and yes it does require treatment from time to time,I like it very much,goes every where with me.It does seem to wet-out,but does yours saturate?just Curious.thanks

[HT1]

The fleece bottom overalls actually is 200 weight, while the top is 300 weight, very warm