Why do so many here hate Boy Scouts?

[Feral Bill]

1. BSA excludes gay and non religious people from its otherwise often worthwhile programs, and thus
2. BSA teaches impressionable boys that people who are gay or not religious are not good enough. This in the cause of developing character.

Not very helpful, friendly, curtious, or kind.

I am aware that a number of scout leaders are great people who take liberties with BSA policy, and that many scouts do not, in fact meet Scouting's "high standards." How about you good guys make some noise for the benefit of ALL boys at the national level?

Meanwhile, Campfire, Girl Scouts, school groups and others are also eager for all out support.

[daddytwosticks]

Hmmm. Is the same true for Cub Scouts? When my son and I were active in Cub Scouting many years ago, I never witnessed ANY intolerance. I would classify my son and I as non-religious (not overt) and we experienced NO problems.

[Amanita]

Hmmm. Is the same true for Cub Scouts? When my son and I were active in Cub Scouting many years ago, I never witnessed ANY intolerance. I would classify my son and I as non-religious (not overt) and we experienced NO problems.

In my experience it's more "don't ask, don't tell" on the religious front. But for example, if your son were to ask to exclude god from the scouting oath he could be kicked out of the organization for revealing that he does not believe in god. Both atheists and agnostics are considered "amoral" because they do not worship a god.

My question is how do you teach tolerance, and speak out against homophobic slurs, in an organization that openly (and apparently legally) engages in homophobia?

[Papa D]

BSA has bad issues. They aren't getting a thing from me.

yep - I totally agree - I wouldn't donate to them either - I like giving old sleeping bags and general camping stuff to homeless folks who really do use it.

[Papa D]

1. BSA excludes gay and non religious people from its otherwise often worthwhile programs, and thus
2. BSA teaches impressionable boys that people who are gay or not religious are not good enough. This in the cause of developing character.

Not very helpful, friendly, curtious, or kind.

I am aware that a number of scout leaders are great people who take liberties with BSA policy, and that many scouts do not, in fact meet Scouting's "high standards." How about you good guys make some noise for the benefit of ALL boys at the national level?

Meanwhile, Campfire, Girl Scouts, school groups and others are also eager for all out support.

yep - I also see "scout leaders" out teaching kids how to do the stupidest things - like wash dishes in a creek, trench tents, throw knives, build campfires by pouring fuel on wood, burn foil waste and almost every conceivable moronic outdoor practice - Outward Bound, Summer Camp Programs, NOLS, or just good parents - Mom/Dad/Kid(s) groups are MUCH more beneficial to youth that I know. Obviously, the non-tolerance of atheists and gays (and their thinly veiled right-wing attitude) is completely unacceptable (to me). Feral Bill is spot-on. Heck, find a 18-20 year old thru-hiker on a tight budget and mentor them or donate some stuff to them - what could be more fun for a Whiteblazer?!

[Papa D]

Hmmm. Is the same true for Cub Scouts? When my son and I were active in Cub Scouting many years ago, I never witnessed ANY intolerance. I would classify my son and I as non-religious (not overt) and we experienced NO problems.

I'm sure there are facets of the organization that are not too overtly pushy - kind of like playing church basketball - you just never were confronted - but it IS an official part of the organization's policy - I'm really not sure how they get away with it - one would assume (hope) that a court challenge someday soon will bust them.

[Captain_Slo]

yep - I also see "scout leaders" out teaching kids how to do the stupidest things - like wash dishes in a creek, trench tents, throw knives, build campfires by pouring fuel on wood, burn foil waste and almost every conceivable moronic outdoor practice - Outward Bound, Summer Camp Programs, NOLS, or just good parents - Mom/Dad/Kid(s) groups are MUCH more beneficial to youth that I know. Obviously, the non-tolerance of atheists and gays (and their thinly veiled right-wing attitude) is completely unacceptable (to me). Feral Bill is spot-on. Heck, find a 18-20 year old thru-hiker on a tight budget and mentor them or donate some stuff to them - what could be more fun for a Whiteblazer?!

Scout groups are volunteer organizations and as such are only as good as their volunteers! Girl Scouts (especially) needs more leaders who are knowledgeable and willing to take girls camping! My co-leader just participated in our local council's camp training--the trainer didn't even know how to set up the tent and many of the women admitted they would never take their girls camping because they didn't believe the girls were capable.... so maybe the best thing WB'ers can donate is their Time!

[Don H]

Watch for the spin off from this thread.

[Don H]

There are many here that seem to hate the Boy Scouts. Why?

[Lone Wolf]

bad scout leaders? kinda like the dog thing and bad owners. i personally have no problem with scouts

[canoehead]

Fact is. BSA is a private organization who has had a set of rules for it's members since 1910.
A Scout is reverent. He is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties and respects the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion. If you click this link you'll find all the awards offered. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Awards/ReligiousAwards/chart.aspx . I think you'll find BSA accommodates many religious views and scouts value these personal religious achievements.
As far as the gay and non religious people. BSA has a program called Learning for life. This program was started to meet the needs of these people too. Since LFL's introduction in 1991, BSA has since dropped the discriminatory policies regarding both the leaders and youth in LFL programs. On the contrary BSA does not promote discriminatory policies, but actually teaches scouting families to be accepting of others, (that's the courteous & kind part of our scout law)
Boy Scout Oath

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

---

Note that the Boy Scout Oath has traditionally been considered to have three promises. Those three promises are delineated by the semicolons in the Oath, which divide it into three clauses. The three promises of the Scout Oath are, therefore:

• Duty to God and country,
• Duty to other people, and
• Duty to self

DUTY TO GOD AND COUNTRY: Your family and religious leaders teach you to know and serve God. By following these teachings, you do your duty to God.
Men and women of the past worked to make America great, and many gave their lives for their country. By being a good family member and a good citizen, by working for your country's good and obeying its laws, you do your duty to your country. Obeying the Scout Law means living by its 12 points.
DUTY TO OTHER PEOPLE: Many people need help. A cheery smile and a helping hand make life easier for others. By doing a Good Turn daily and helping when you're needed, you prove yourself a Scout and do your part to make this a better world.
DUTY TO SELF: Keeping yourself physically strong means taking care of your body. Eat the right foods and build your strength. Staying mentally awake means learn all you can, be curious, and ask questions. Being morally straight means to live your life with honesty, to be clean in your speech and actions, and to be a person of strong character.

---

Boy Scout Law

A Scout is:

• Trustworthy,
• Loyal,
• Helpful,
• Friendly,
• Courteous,
• Kind,
• Obedient,
• Cheerful,
• Thrifty,
• Brave,
• Clean,
• and Reverent.

I've been a Proud member of the BSA since the late 60's and still active, true it's had it's up and downs but I'd say quit being the discriminatory people (Haters and those sighting inaccuracies above) you are and get your facts straight. Scouting, Boy or Girl Scouting, is still the best program out there that actually includes and welcomes the participation of it's families and adult leaders. God bless.

[Don H]

Next month I will be doing a presentation/slide show on the AT to about 300 adult Scout leaders. This is the second of several scheduled. I expect to talk with over 1,000 Scouts and adults in the next few months. If you have some valid concerns I can pass them on.

[JAK]

Some people have problems with any group they aren't a member of. Personally, I like the concept behind scouting, so I have alot of patience for scouts, even when the concept isn't always well executed. Hitler Youth would be an extreme example. Child molesting and cover ups would be another. As Lone Wolf said, don't blame the scouts, at least not until they get a bit older, and even then on a case by case basis. As far as group size goes, I think smaller younger kids should naturally be in larger groups, but groups of older scouts can and should be broken up into smaller groups. This is for many good reasons. The best troops probably do this naturally. The ultimate goal should be to prepare these kids to be able to hike by themselves at some point, when they are ready. The focus should be more on becoming a natural and sustainable part of nature, and less on becoming part of a society that has become the antithesis of nature and sustainability, but we could all do better in that regard.

[Ender]

Mainly I'd say it's because the hike in large groups that take up most or all of the shelter/tent space, and then stay up late talking in their tents while others are trying to sleep. As Lone Wolf mentioned, it's bad/lax leaders that let this behavior happen.

That said, I like the boy scouts, and enjoy when I run across them on the trail. I've had countless good interactions with them.

[Spokes]

It all started with the Boy Scout manual advising people to dig a trench around their tent before it rains.....

[lemon b]

Ear plugs work.
No issue here I just move on.

[backtracker2]

i agree with lone wolf... it isnt the scouts, it's their leaders. I have had many encounters with scouts on the trail over the years, and anytime there was a problem, it was a direct result of clueless, inexperienced leaders. Of course, I have run into some troops who had good leadership, that were well organized, aware of LNT, and were thoughtful in shelter campsites. However, IMO, these are in the minority.

[canoehead]

Don
Thanks for volunteering your personal time for scouting and promoting the AT.
The BSA has a lot of troops that will be using the trail, I would ask that you focus part of your presentation on LNT and how BSA needs to be very vigilant in this. That seems to be where I see and hear most of the complaints about groups in the woods. I've been a Scout, Scout Master and now a BSA Ranger, Owner of www.tekoamountainoutdoors.com I was also a Ridge Runner for the AMC in the Sages Ravine area in CT so I know first hand that some groups can do better out there. Remember these scouters are ambassadors for BSA, potential section & thru hikers and stewards for the outdoors. YIS

[BobTheBuilder]

How do they get away with it? Because we live in a free society, it is a private organization, it receives no government funding, and membership is voluntary, that's how they get away with it.

If you don't like what the Boy Scouts teach, don't join. Even better, start your own volunteer organization, teach what you like, and let the world take shots at YOU.

[dshideler]

I for one am glad to see that there is still an organization out there that for the most part stands on the values that it was founded on. So many organizations that were founded on certain values have been forced by our government to allow the acceptance and even teaching of certain beliefs that are totally outside of the scope of what they were founded on in the name of acceptance. If you feel so strongly that homosexuality should be allowed to openly take place around grade school children and that the mention of God should not be allowed, then I suggest that you start your own organization.