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  1. #21
    BYGE "Biggie" TOMP's Avatar
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    Well I guess I will be the first to break that rule. But seriously since its only for a 5 mile section I will just make sure not to camp there. Good to know thanks for the info, I will mark it on my guide.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amanita View Post
    Am I misreading "bear resistant containers" to include Ursacks as acceptable? Nothing in the given article seems to exclude them.
    I'm betting it's an oversight by the Forest Service; they probably only inteded the instruction to mean the plastic containers, but I'm guessing.

  3. #23
    Registered User moocow's Avatar
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    what happens when 15-20 people are setting camp there a day? enforcement seems illogical. i guess they could set up a temporary ranger station, give fines, and telling hikers to scurry along. you would figure there would be more warning than right before thru-hiker season started. i guess its something the hiker hostel, dave's shuttles, and others could carry and convince all those hikers that had no idea to buy or rent.

  4. #24
    BYGE "Biggie" TOMP's Avatar
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    Also in New Jersey campsites in bearcountry they supply big metal bear containers for public use that stay at the camp site, seems like this would be a better option than requiring each individual to carry a heavy container.

    Considering the time frame of this regulation it seems to be aimed at the thru-hiking crowd, I just dont see anyone actually buying this container.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by YohonPetro View Post
    Hungry bears can walk 5 miles up the Trail. Instead of fixing the problem, this only relocates it. How large of a range does a black bear have anyway?
    So whats the problem and how would you fix it?

    This likely will not be a heavy-handed enforcement strategy at first, the forest service has to understand that this isn't the best time to roll-out something like this, but there never really is a good time. Untill the outfitters have a chance to set up an easy rental system (like there is all over the place where canisters are required) i suspect there will be a lot of warnings given out.

    This is better in my mind than a general camping ban, at least folks have the opportunity to stay there if they want to.

    As far as the Ursack goes, I'm guessing that this was not an oversight, but that the wording was carefully selected to be accurate. I'm guessing that if you have a Ursack and you encounter a Ranger, that they will thank you for being a conscientious protector of wilderness.

    Fact of the matter is that people are a problem up there; fires in shelters, trash, fire rings, bear behavior. Too many folk were not acting their age and we all suffered as a result. I bet many hikers will understand this and either carry a can or change their schedule. Its the "goofers" that will have a problem with this and will incur the punishment.

  6. #26
    BYGE "Biggie" TOMP's Avatar
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    Good point they dont say what qualifies as bear resistant. So I think my sea to summit Sil-Nylon will be plenty bear resistant, after all a bear has never gotten it before.

  7. #27
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    Requiring bear canisters for a five mile section ain't gonna achieve crap. Even if there's 100% compliance on the 5 mile section the problem bear(s) will just move up or down the line a little.

    Of course there's probably gonna be another "bear" problem: FS rangers hanging out close to Neels Gap handing out citations.
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  8. #28
    BYGE "Biggie" TOMP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Speed View Post
    Requiring bear canisters for a five mile section ain't gonna achieve crap. Even if there's 100% compliance on the 5 mile section the problem bear(s) will just move up or down the line a little.

    Of course there's probably gonna be another "bear" problem: FS rangers hanging out close to Neels Gap handing out citations.
    Yeah the bears will move but the regulations wont at least not this year. And I think most hikers are more worried about a fine than a bear attack.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Speed View Post
    Requiring bear canisters for a five mile section ain't gonna achieve crap. Even if there's 100% compliance on the 5 mile section the problem bear(s) will just move up or down the line a little.

    Of course there's probably gonna be another "bear" problem: FS rangers hanging out close to Neels Gap handing out citations.
    Primarily, this is not intended to have an impact on the BEARS, this is intended to have an impact on the PEOPLE that affect the bears. So what will this achieve? What its intended too, people will be presented with the fact that negative impacts on wildlife from humans who are actin' a fool is a serious problem and the people who are charged with managing wildlife are going to respond accordingly.

    You think the bears will move? probably but blood has been the best place for them to eat people food because of the range of people that use it. If they move away from blood they will be moving to a place that does not see the wide range of users and therefore it may not be as easy to get food.

    Less people go to Cowrock than blood mountain and a higher percentage of Cowrock's visitors are thru-hikers who are "seeking a fellowship with wilderness" right?

  10. #30
    Nalgene Ninja flemdawg1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amanita View Post
    Am I misreading "bear resistant containers" to include Ursacks as acceptable? Nothing in the given article seems to exclude them.
    Hearing about the bear incidents last year, Ursacks kept the bears out. However, everything inside was crushed into powder. You still lose your food, unless you want eat ramen flavored paste.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digger'02 View Post
    Primarily, this is not intended to have an impact on the BEARS . . . seeking a fellowship with wilderness
    I'd respond in detail but it'd violate one of my favorite rules.

    Happy Trails!
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  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digger'02 View Post
    As far as the Ursack goes, I'm guessing that this was not an oversight, but that the wording was carefully selected to be accurate. I'm guessing that if you have a Ursack and you encounter a Ranger, that they will thank you for being a conscientious protector of wilderness.
    I don't know I don't use bear canisters or resistant bags, but I always though a bear resistant container relates only to hardcase containers and NOT bear resistant bags. But I could be wrong. Their wording just makes me believe they are talking about hardcase canisters, because of this:

    U.S. Forest Service officials said the containers can seal in odors from garbage, toiletries and food. They are also tamper resistant against extreme force.




    Also when the rent them out in other places: http://www.outsideonline.com/blog/us...r-attacks.html

    And those are the hardcases http://thegoat.backcountry.com/2010/...le+Feedfetcher


    But I admit it can be interpreted the other way, in any case I don't see how their wording can be characterized as what you say: "wording was carefully selected to be accurate." So in that sense it's still an oversight, judging by the article, but I haven't seen the actual directive.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Speed View Post
    Requiring bear canisters for a five mile section ain't gonna achieve crap. .....
    They could do the same thing the TSA does when going through airport screening- have a whole bunch of containers at one end, grab one, then drop it off at the other end when your done with the section. Hire somebody to shuttle the empty containers to the start point.

    Heck, we could probably get a Federal grant and call it a Jobs Creation Program. Yeehaw!!

  14. #34
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    You can assume and read into the vague wording all you want, but the bottom line is that what it really means it what the Ranger standing in front of you thinks it means.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spokes View Post
    . . . Heck, we could probably get a Federal grant and call it a Jobs Creation Program. Yeehaw!!
    If I thought there was a snow ball's chance in hell of finding a program I'd write the application.

    I've always wanted a job where I got paid to laugh my a** off.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by flemdawg1 View Post
    Hearing about the bear incidents last year, Ursacks kept the bears out. However, everything inside was crushed into powder. You still lose your food, unless you want eat ramen flavored paste.
    All my food is either powdered or gorp, so that wouldn't be a problem at all.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Jones View Post
    You can assume and read into the vague wording all you want, but the bottom line is that what it really means it what the Ranger standing in front of you thinks it means.
    That's the absolute truth!

    And as unbelievable as it may sound to some, they (govt employees) are constantly trying to understand and arguing amongst themselves what exactly the "wording" in their own directives is saying. Been there, done that

  18. #38
    Registered User Sierra Echo's Avatar
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    I'm not worried. I will just go eat in town before I go camp up there.

  19. #39
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    I've been using a bear canister (BV500) for years for a number of reasons: 1) I camp in areas where bears are a problem and/or canisters are required, 2) sooner or later, so many areas will fall under category 1 that you may as well get used to using one, and not be part of creating the "bear problem", 3) my food stays nice & dry & whole - no crushing, 4) bears aren't the only critters that want your food...

  20. #40
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    well it reads bear proof containers for overnights on 5 miles of trail pretty easy to not overnight and not need a bear canister on that section.

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