BMT, split from: A Walk in the Woods Movie?

[weary]

U mean the AT isn't already overused???

The footpath in my opinion is rarely overused, with the possible exception of the touristy places like the Whites in New Hampshire, Gulf Hagas and Katahdin. The shelters and camping areas are overused. A solution would be to create hardened tent/tarp sites with privies every few miles a couple of tenths of a mile off the trail, and build as many alternative loop trails as possible.

Useful also would be widening the corridor and making any route in the corridor eligible for the 2,000 miler patch.

Weary

[smokymtnsteve]

cmon down to GA in the spring thru hiher season..

but good point weary.

[MOWGLI]

cmon down to GA in the spring thru hiher season..

but good point weary.

With the Benton MacKaye extending from Springer to Davenport Gap, the NPS is hoping that some presure will be taken off of the AT in the Smokies. I'm hoping some adventurous souls will use that as an alternative to the AT. IMO, you'll be richer for the experience.

To me, GSMNP is the most used section of trail. In places it is little more than a ditch. That is not a slap at the SMHC. They do a GREAT job in the most visited park in America. They also have to contend with horse traffic, which the other maintaining clubs don't have to deal with.

[smokymtnsteve]

GSMNP is certainly very heavily used, but that first 35 miles in GA can be a real zoo in the spring.

[Youngblood]

maybe so...during the spring "thru-hiker' season it's used all out of proportion.

Steve,

When the Benton MacKaye Trail is completed all the way from Springer Mountain to the north end of the Smokies at Davenport Gap (and it may already be) it can take some of the heavy use off the southern AT... at least I think that was one of its purposes.

When this happens it is going to be interesting to see how the small mountain cabin community at Cherry Log(?) in GA handles this influx of hikers literally going through their back yards. (It is pretty neat going through there.) I suspect that the amount of hikers is so low at present that many of the residents haven't even seen a backpacker passing through. I hope it all works out and suspect it will if backpackers follow the rules and don't mess up a good thing.

I have hiked the 90 something miles of the BMT from Springer Mountain to the Ocoee River at US64 in TN several times, it is a good hike and certainly would be an enjoyable alternative to the GA AT. You've got the Toccoa River at 14 miles, the Toccoa Bend Country Store at 17 miles, the Toccoa River again with a trail/riverside restrurant at 35 miles, US76 with Blue Ridge about 8 miles north when you cross at 50 something miles (with groceries, laundry mat, lodging, etc). After that you go through Cherry Log before entering the Cohutta Wilderness and then the Big Frog Wilderness followed by the Ocoee River and US64. That's as far as I've gone, but there is a BBQ place and a grocery store a few miles east on US64... don't remember how far or know about lodging?

So, whose going to be the first to take this new route all the way from Springer to Davenport Gap?

Youngblood

[SGT Rock]

Youngblood,

I am very seriously considering using the BMT to start when I do my thru-hike. I don't know exactly how much of it I will use. Do you have a map source so I can look at it, because, of course, re-supply can be an issue. There is so much already known about the AT that it is a no-brainer, a monkey could re-supply on the AT; but I am concerned about planning the first few weeks on the BMT if I use that.

Thanks.

[Youngblood]

Youngblood,

I am very seriously considering using the BMT to start when I do my thru-hike. I don't know exactly how much of it I will use. Do you have a map source so I can look at it, because, of course, re-supply can be an issue. There is so much already known about the AT that it is a no-brainer, a monkey could re-supply on the AT; but I am concerned about planning the first few weeks on the BMT if I use that.

Thanks.

Sarge,

I have a lot of info for the BMT up to US64 in terms of paper maps, electonic maps and books. I have paper maps that I printed out from electonic maps for the sections from US64 to Twenty Mile Ranger Station on the SW entrance of the Smokies. I think at that point the plan was to use trails that already existed within the Smokies to cross the AT and then end the BMT at Davenport Gap at the north end of the Smokies.

Another option is to use the BMT and Duncan Ridge Trail between Springer Mountain and Blood Mountain. The BMT starts on Springer Mtn in GA and takes its own seperate treadway from the AT. At Three Forks, it crosses the AT (probably the second or third time) and the Duncan Ridge Trail begins, sharing trailway with the BMT. The BMT/DRT split from the AT just a mile or so up the trail near Long Creek Falls and continue past the Toccoa River and GA60 (a few miles west of where the AT crosses GA60 at Woody Gap) before they split on the ascend of Rhodes Mountain. At Rhodes Mountain mountain the BMT heads west while the DRT heads east until it terminates on the AT on the south side of Blood Mountain. It use to end on the AT at Slaughter Gap but they changed that when they re-routed the AT away from Slaughter Gap a year or so ago... you will likely still see Slaughter Gap as its termination in writeups about the DRT.

I've got to go get lunch and see about getting some work done on my car this afternoon. It might be best to talk about some of this on the phone this weekend because there are so many options depending on what you have for software, etc; if you want to do that let me know and you can email me your number or I can email you mine.

Youngblood

[walkin' wally]

The footpath in my opinion is rarely overused, with the possible exception of the touristy places like the Whites in New Hampshire, Gulf Hagas and Katahdin. .

Weary

I have to respectfully disagree with this as far as Maine goes. I have seen sections in Western Maine where the trail is just roots and bedrock. The soil is long gone and the woody branches used for handholds are bare. Some of the trees beside the trail are ready to topple over if you are not careful what you try to hold on to.
Weary's idea of more campsites here and there may be a good idea because I think the lean-tos see a lot of use judging from the condition of the areas around some of them.

[weary]

I have to respectfully disagree with this as far as Maine goes. I have seen sections in Western Maine where the trail is just roots and bedrock. The soil is long gone and the woody branches used for handholds are bare. Some of the trees beside the trail are ready to topple over if you are not careful what you try to hold on to.
.

That's not a function of overuse. It's a product of how we relocate and build trails in Maine. Two thirds of the trail was relocated during the 70s and 80s. Almost none of this work involved any significant trail engineering, which is needed on any trail that has any kind of significant use.

The aim was to get the trail out of the valleys and onto the ridgelines before Congress set the "permanent" location. Only now are we going back and doing the erosion control and rock work needed for permanence.

That's why MATC raises and spends many thousands of dollars each year hiring trained trail specialists to work with volunteers from around the country who spend a week or two correcting the inadequate construction of the relocation years. Maine is a beautiful section of the AT. It does not, and never has had much good trail construction, until the reconstruction began a few years ago.

Weary

[SGT Rock]

Sarge,

I have a lot of info for the BMT up to US64 in terms of paper maps, electonic maps and books. I have paper maps that I printed out from electonic maps for the sections from US64 to Twenty Mile Ranger Station on the SW entrance of the Smokies. I think at that point the plan was to use trails that already existed within the Smokies to cross the AT and then end the BMT at Davenport Gap at the north end of the Smokies.

Another option is to use the BMT and Duncan Ridge Trail between Springer Mountain and Blood Mountain. The BMT starts on Springer Mtn in GA and takes its own seperate treadway from the AT. At Three Forks, it crosses the AT (probably the second or third time) and the Duncan Ridge Trail begins, sharing trailway with the BMT. The BMT/DRT split from the AT just a mile or so up the trail near Long Creek Falls and continue past the Toccoa River and GA60 (a few miles west of where the AT crosses GA60 at Woody Gap) before they split on the ascend of Rhodes Mountain. At Rhodes Mountain mountain the BMT heads west while the DRT heads east until it terminates on the AT on the south side of Blood Mountain. It use to end on the AT at Slaughter Gap but they changed that when they re-routed the AT away from Slaughter Gap a year or so ago... you will likely still see Slaughter Gap as its termination in writeups about the DRT.

I've got to go get lunch and see about getting some work done on my car this afternoon. It might be best to talk about some of this on the phone this weekend because there are so many options depending on what you have for software, etc; if you want to do that let me know and you can email me your number or I can email you mine.

Youngblood

Well I have a couple of years left to plan before my thru-hike, but any info you have is appriciated. I would like to try and get on the trail somewhere maybe this summer as a section hike. I did find this site with an overview map and some trail info, plus it looks like I can get all the maps for $5: http://www.bmta.org/

I am thinking this is a good way to beat some crowds at the start and I figure it is all good as long as I am walking the whole way to Maine - if I'm walking, I ain't cheating

[max patch]

I am thinking this is a good way to beat some crowds at the start and I figure it is all good as long as I am walking the whole way to Maine - if I'm walking, I ain't cheating

Depends on what your goal is...do you want to hike all the way to Maine or do you want to hike the AT all the way...there is a difference.

There is a value to the purists vs blue blaze vs yellow blaze debates. It allows someone planning their hike to decide what is important to them before they set foot on the trail. An informed decision can be made up front rather than at the spur of the moment. If a group you are walking with decides to take the Kimsey Creek trail and "save" 20 miles do you tag along or do the the Standing Indian loop instead? There are many options like this on the AT.

[SGT Rock]

I agree Max, I am not a purist, and I have never claimed to be. But I'm also not out to shortcut the walk, just open up possibilities for doing it more than just one way. I remember 1999 having a conversation with three thru-hikers in VA, two were proud that they had found a horse trail that cut off many miles of their walk, while the third felt "stupid" for missing it. I think that he missed the point - he wasn't stupid for walking the trail, he was smart. The others weren't necessarily better either just because they found a short cut. But then why listen to me, a lowly section hiker at the time (at least that is what I saw in his eyes).

But, I also think that in some ways, looking at the Trail as a trail corridor and a trail system may have create a better situation for the trail in that it opens up more land within the system for protection and reduces the impact in some currently "high impact" areas. So if by changing my start route I help reduce impact and crowding, fine. If I'm the only one or one of a few, that is fine too. I'm walking to the beat of my own drum when I do go. I don't need a patch or certificate to tell me if I accomplished anything.

[Youngblood]

Sarge,

The BMTA site has a lot of good info. Some of their members posted the existing trail and the new/proposed trail electronically here: http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/topo/searchlist.cfm , but you need the TOPO! North Georgia, Great Smoky Mountains & Atlanta disc to see it. Mine is several years old and it seems like I had to buy the TOPO! GPS USA disc also to handle some of the interfaces with it... I don't remember if it was to print, download files, upload files or all of those. Anyhow, I have used those on my Garmin GPS unit and have copied them from there to Garmin's MapSource software and MapTech's topo software as well.

I have the old 'page' maps (I think there are about 11 of them) that the BMTA use to (and kind of still does) sell. I also have the book that Tim Homan on the first 93 mile segment that the BMTA is now using as a guidebook (that's Springer to US64). Johnny Molloy's book is written for thru hiking it but again, it is for the segment that ends at US64. Unfortunately, at least the BMT portion of Molloy's book has a few typo's that I have caught, but I usually take a typed up mileage log from Molloy's book and a set of 1:24,000 series strip topo maps that I print out. But, I have hiked it enough to know about the tricky turns in the Cohutta Wilderness and Big Frog Wilderness... where they don't paint blazes. The detailed directions tell you about them and you would at least want to use the detailed directions for those areas.

I think you will like the trail.

Youngblood

[SGT Rock]

I just looked at the on-line stuff, looks like shelters are few, a couple of steep sections are listed, and so far I only see about one fair re-supply point about 17 miles in. The stuff on the site only lists up to HWY 64, but without a frame of reference of where that is in realtionship to the AT, it means nothing to me. The BIG map looks like the trails meet in the Smokies twice making a large figure 8. Oh, and the cool thing to me is I can still plan for Long Creek Falls on night one as my first camp.

I might get a book on the trail if I finally decide to do this, but I didn't know there were two books. I have actually been thinking about this since about November or December. I was thinking how funny it would be to introduce myself to people that have already been on the trail for three weeks as the guy they haven't heard of that has also been three weeks on the trail. I figure someone is going to want to "challenge" my trip, but screw 'em.

[SGT Rock]

I split this off the movie thread. Seems a new subject was going that probably belonged somewhere other than there.

[Youngblood]

Depends on what your goal is...do you want to hike all the way to Maine or do you want to hike the AT all the way...there is a difference.

There is a value to the purists vs blue blaze vs yellow blaze debates. It allows someone planning their hike to decide what is important to them before they set foot on the trail. An informed decision can be made up front rather than at the spur of the moment. If a group you are walking with decides to take the Kimsey Creek trail and "save" 20 miles do you tag along or do the the Standing Indian loop instead? There are many options like this on the AT.

Max,

You are correct about there being many options like that. They don't always involve saving miles. Someone who is planning a first time thru hike probably has no idea what it means to follow your rules for being a white blaze purist. I would like to encourage you to take this opportunity to explain in detail just what you can and can't do if you want to be a white blaze purist, a 2000 miler or just be able to call yourself a thru-hiker. I'm sure it would help many of this years hikers, you wouldn't want them to take the wrong trail out of a shelter (or something of that nature if that isn't a problem) and invalidate their claims for how they did their hike. What are some of 'your tips' on mistakes to avoid?

Youngblood

[weary]

....I might get a book on the trail if I finally decide to do this, but I didn't know there were two books. I have actually been thinking about this since about November or December. I was thinking how funny it would be to introduce myself to people that have already been on the trail for three weeks as the guy they haven't heard of that has also been three weeks on the trail. I figure someone is going to want to "challenge" my trip, but screw 'em.

Unless things have changed dramatically since 1993, it's my guess no one will say a thing other than to ask you how you liked the Benton Mackaye trail. I wandered all around Georgia and North Carolina and no one seemed to care one way or the other.

These list debates in my experience rarely get translated into trail controversies unless the off trail people make it an issue. In 1993 Tux and Pirate regaled us in the shelters with their stories of shortcuts. Most listened. And then did their own thing, whatever that might be.

Even Wingfoot, who has emerged as the leading spokesman for "purity," argues such topics should be confined to the prehike debates, not trail confrontations.

Weary

[SGT Rock]

Even Wingfoot, who has emerged as the leading spokesman for "purity," argues such topics should be confined to the prehike debates, not trail confrontations.

That is good to know. I have experienced some of this on the trail to tell you the truth, but not much.

[Nightwalker]

GSMNP is certainly very heavily used, but that first 35 miles in GA can be a real zoo in the spring.

And, like many, I'm concerned that this silly movie will make it even worse.

Hey, maybe we'll get lucky. Maybe it'll be the one Redford/Newman movie to EVER flop.

[MOWGLI]

And, like many, I'm concerned that this silly movie will make it even worse.

My sources tell me that Redford & Newman are indeed going to make the movie. They're going to walk the BMT between Springer & Davenport Gap though.