Just Starting to Plan--Help!

[bigern]

My son (18) and I (49) wish to thru-hike AT in 2007 and are starting to prepare now. Other than a few 20 mile day hikes without packs, we're complete novices and have much to learn before we make the attempt. Strapped on a 6 lb. 6 oz. pack loaded to a total 30 lbs. at REI and felt a bit wobbly in the knees. Don't think I'd enjoy (or survive) with that much weight. Really, really motivated to try AT but think we have to go Ultralight. I know there are some long stretches on AT between resupply points. Three questions: (1) Since we will both be carrying packs, what is the recommended minimum capacity for each of our packs? I actually bought the 6 lb. 6 oz. pack but now am thinking I should return it. But, I'm worried about carrying packs too small for food and water over longer stretches. (2) Over the trails longer stretches, how much weight should be allowed for food and water per person? (3) Any great web sites for Ultralighters?

Thanks for any help you can provide two future thru-hikers.

[Nameless]

Hello!

Congrats on planning for a hike, you have some great experiences ahead of you.

The first thing that I would recomend doing, is take back the pack. There is no real need for a pack that heavy on the trail, and it only will weigh down on your knees. There are a lot of great packs out there, and most of them are probably cheaper then the pack you bought at REI, but I cannot be sure because i do not know what pack it is. I would recomend leaving the decision on what pack to buy untill you know the approximate weight and volume of the items you are going to carry. I personally believe the Moonbow Gearskin, weighing only a pound, fits my needs best, and it is the pack i bought, but I wouldnt have chose it at the beginning of my selection process.

Ultralight isnt necissarly something you want to jump into with no experience. It is for people who have worked there weight down with experience, and are carrying what they are comfortable with needing to survive while being under a certain weight. I usually define that base weight at around 8-10 pounds max myself, but everyone seems to have a different deffintion.

Instead, i would recomend working to buy lightweight items, and hike with still a very lightweight base weight. I consider my 13.5 pound base weight (if you want to see my gearlist it was recently posted under the general gear area) to be a comfortable base weight for me, and though it is not ultralight, is a weight i dont feel on my back, and consenquently have dont worry about getting down to the "ultralight level" Its where YOU are comfortable with YOUR pack that counts.

So, start out taking trips, hike for a night or two. That is one of the best ways to find out what works for you. I decided I didnt like the popcan stoves, because i tried one, and i didnt like how complecated it was, so i made a supercat, and loved it. There are endless resources on everything you could dream of on the internet. I used Whiteblaze for much of my gear research, there is a huge amount of experience through these people. Juet remember that everyone hikes differently in some way or another, so if you dont agree with how someone does their hike, or picks their gear, then dont worry about it, do it your way.

Once you get into shape on the trail I wouldnt recommend carrying less then two pounds of food a day. You can get away with less, but then you will be eating significantly less calories then you consume, and lose too much weight and energy. I believe more people leave the trail for this reason then people realize, because the lack of calories can just make you feel so dejected overtime that you just dont want to do anything anymore. The one thing i will not skimp on is calories that i take with me for eating. But then again I am a toothpick, so i dont have anything that i can lose, unlike a lot of other people, who can use reserves. But, usually at the beginning of the season, or a thru hike, you eat significantly less and build up to the two lbs.

Water depends on the hike. If it has been a wet season, and there is water everywhere, then you dont have to worry about carrying much in your pack. You just simply filter or purify whenever you want. You could carry less then a quart on that type of trail if tha is all you wanted to carry. Or, you could be hiking on a dry year, and not have relyable watersources, and will need to carry much more water to get you from source to source. Thats really a decision you make at the time of the hike.

If you need any more help please search the forms of whiteblaze, there is a convient toolbar for it near the top of the page, and if you cannot find what you need, then ask! Good luck with your future in backpacking.

Pink

[Lilred]

My son (18) and I (49) wish to thru-hike AT in 2007 and are starting to prepare now. Other than a few 20 mile day hikes without packs, we're complete novices and have much to learn before we make the attempt. Strapped on a 6 lb. 6 oz. pack loaded to a total 30 lbs. at REI and felt a bit wobbly in the knees. Don't think I'd enjoy (or survive) with that much weight. Really, really motivated to try AT but think we have to go Ultralight. I know there are some long stretches on AT between resupply points. Three questions: (1) Since we will both be carrying packs, what is the recommended minimum capacity for each of our packs? I actually bought the 6 lb. 6 oz. pack but now am thinking I should return it. But, I'm worried about carrying packs too small for food and water over longer stretches. (2) Over the trails longer stretches, how much weight should be allowed for food and water per person? (3) Any great web sites for Ultralighters?

Thanks for any help you can provide two future thru-hikers.

You have found probably the BEST website for all the things you'll need to know to do a thru-hike. Check out the articles section. Lots of really good info there. To better understand your needs and what will work for you, REI rents equipement. You can rent different kinds of packs, tents, bags, stoves, etc. to see what best suits you. Congrats on your decision to thru-hike and have fun with the planning stage.

[hikerjohnd]

Welcome to WB! The best advice I can offer for starting out is get the pack last. Once you have all of your stuff, you'll know what size pack you need (I wish I had been given this advice - I have 4 packs in the closet - I tell myself they are for various occasions, but one or two will probably never see the light of day!)

You will be surprised how light you can actually get your gear, especially if you and your son are sharing the load. Lilredmg said it - this is probably the best site to gather information! Some people will have militant opinions one way or the other - you'll figure out what works best for you. Remember above all else - HYOH!

[Whistler]

(1) Since we will both be carrying packs, what is the recommended minimum capacity for each of our packs? I actually bought the 6 lb. 6 oz. pack but now am thinking I should return it. But, I'm worried about carrying packs too small for food and water over longer stretches. (2) Over the trails longer stretches, how much weight should be allowed for food and water per person? (3) Any great web sites for Ultralighters?

1. A 'minimal' minimum is probably 2500cu or so. An 'average' is probably 3200-4000cu. [That 800cu difference is about the size of a basketball].
2. Max food is probably about 5 days, 10-12lbs. Water, perhaps 2-3lbs average, 4-5max.
3. Yes.
www.backpacking.net --lightweight leaning; old material on the site, but the forums are very active and very helpful
www.backpackinglight.com --ultralight leaning; good articles; nice gear shop and membership perks
www.adventurealan.com
Look up these other personal websites that I can't remember addresses for: Michael Connick, Kenneth Knight, Onestep, John O'Mahoney, Mark Verber, Rick Halbert. Just google'em. Also be sure to check out the 'links' pages on those websites. All of those were immensely helpful for me.

There is a ton of info out there. I would read, read, read, and link, link, link before you start buying. Be sure to check out manufacturers' links that those guys reference, too. It'll help open you up to what's out there.
-Mark

[Singletrack]

My son (18) and I (49) wish to thru-hike AT in 2007 and are starting to prepare now. Other than a few 20 mile day hikes without packs, we're complete novices and have much to learn before we make the attempt. Strapped on a 6 lb. 6 oz. pack loaded to a total 30 lbs. at REI and felt a bit wobbly in the knees. Don't think I'd enjoy (or survive) with that much weight. Really, really motivated to try AT but think we have to go Ultralight. I know there are some long stretches on AT between resupply points. Three questions: (1) Since we will both be carrying packs, what is the recommended minimum capacity for each of our packs? I actually bought the 6 lb. 6 oz. pack but now am thinking I should return it. But, I'm worried about carrying packs too small for food and water over longer stretches. (2) Over the trails longer stretches, how much weight should be allowed for food and water per person? (3) Any great web sites for Ultralighters?

Thanks for any help you can provide two future thru-hikers.

There are different opinions on this, but I would try to keep the weight of my Big 3 in the 5-7 lb. category. That is the total weight of your pack, shelter, and sleeping bag (including sleep pad) The rest will be somewhere at 5-7 lbs. Excluding food, water and fuel. Alot of Ultralighters, and Lightweighters use lightweight down bags, tarps, or single wall tents. Many use frameless packs. Check out the Packs list in the new article section. Hope this helps.

[Peaks]

Like others I'd suggest that you return the pack for several reasons:

First, it's probably heavier than you need. There are plenty of other good packs out there that have more than enought capacity, and weigh less.

Second, the larger a pack, the more gear you are tempted to bring, and the heavier everything is.

Finally, buy all your other gear first. Then, take the gear, food, fuel, and water to an outfitter and try fitting your gear into various packs and spend time trying them on. Buy the pack last.

[Doctari]

My response is not exactly in response to "gear":

Perhaps the outfitter rents gear. if so, after vewing "our" gear lists in articles, rent gear [pack, sleeping bag, etc] & go on a overnighter. You could even train at nearby Stone Mt. Hie to the top & back with gear. Also, you are only about 70 miles from Amilacola, do a few multi days on the BMT to get some experience as mentioned above.

Actual gear hints:
There are many posts here on the making & use of a "Pepsi can stove" which burns denatured alcohol, & weighs 1/2 to 1 Oz as opposed to 1 to 2 Lbs for a gasoline stove. Whichever stove you use, practice with it several times at home.

Consider using a tarp (Sylnylon) instead of a tent. Whichever shelter you use, practice with it several times at home.

re clothing: Lightweight layers will keep you as warm as heavy bulky stuff. AND allow you to regulate your temp better.

Go light on the foot wear, BREAK THEM IN BEFORE STARTING YOUR THRU.

2 to 3 pairs of socks is enough.

AVOID COTTON.


Welcom to WB

Have a good hike.

Doctari.

[bearbag hanger]

First, return the pack - it's way too heavy for what you need. Then, follow everyone else's advice and buy your replacement pack last.

In addition to WhiteBlaze, you should spend some time at Sgt Rock's site: http://hikinghq.net/ . I expect he could easily take all his advice and put it into a best selling book.

Places to read mercifully short to mediam length articles I have found useful:
http://www.jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Articles.htm
http://www.thru-hiker.com/articles.asp (read the "The 5 x 8' Poncho as Shelter and Rain Gear" if you're thinking about using a 5X8 tarp as shelter)

Final note, be comfortable with your gear. Don't let some of these gram weanies force their ideals on you. If your doing a through hike, you need to be prepared for the cold, unless you plan to wait until June 1st to start (NOBO) and plan to finish within three months.

Last bit of advice - take as many weekend and three day weekend trips as you can. Especially if you're thinking of using a tarp instead of a tent or hammock.

[verber]

I think it's really great that you and your son are thinking about doing the AT in 2007. I am sure there will be a lot of special memory that you and your son will carry for the rest of your lives.

To answer your questions from my perspective:

(1) Minimum capacity: Depends on what you end up taking. If you really end up going ultralight, then 3000cu/in should provide enough volume for the AT hiked in the typical spring-summer time frame. My recommendation would be to return the pack for now until you have a better idea what you need. As for weight, it's easy to get to a 14lb basic weight if you spend a bit of money, and possible to get down to something like a 5lb basic weight for the AT if you build a few skills and don't mind when environmental conditions at their most extreme that you uncomfortable (but safe).

(2) How much food: Conventional wisdom is around 1.25lb/person/day. Some people need less, some people need more. What you need will change over the course of the hike. In colder weather you need to eat more, but later in the hike you will likely have burned off excess fat and need more because you don't have execess fat to help fuel you. My experiences on the AT is dated (from the 70 and 80s) but talking with folks who have done it more recently leads me to believe that if you move at a reasonable rate for a thru-hike (say around 20 miles/day) that 5 days between resupply will be the most you need to carry except in one or two spots. As to water, depends on how rainy the seasons has been. Most of the time 1-2L of water is all you need to carry.

(3) Ultralight Websites: This site will be extremely useful. http://www.backpackinglight.com ($24/year) has a lot of good information since they take a science oriented approach to backpacking. I would recommend checking out the YahooGroups BackpackingLight mailing list and the at-l mailing list at http://www.backcountry.net. I would look at Brawney's page on ultralight http://www.trailquest.net/ultralight.html and read people's journals at http://www.trailjournals.com/. There are a number of other websites which are useful, I have links to other sites I have found useful at http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/

[orangebug]

I'm glad to hear that you questioned your ability to enjoy hiking with the gear.

Remember, this is a sport, recreation, and experience that is supposed to be fun. There will be times when it is definitely not fun, just as in any other sport. Rent and borrow packs while you figure out what to put into them.

I am also impressed that you have begun planning 2 years from now. This is most excellent. You have plenty of time to get into shape, to learn some cooking skills and how to use your gear comfortably. I encourage you to try some 4-10 days sections. It takes that long to get used to walking and to get comfortable with the bedding. It will also give you the "opportunity" to deal with a variety of weather conditions.

Welcome.

[Peaks]

I think it's really great that you and your son are thinking about doing the AT in 2007. I am sure there will be a lot of special memory that you and your son will carry for the rest of your lives.

To answer your questions from my perspective:

(2) How much food: Conventional wisdom is around 1.25lb/person/day. Some people need less, some people need more.

Most backpacking food has around 100 calories per ounce. So, 20 ounces of food will only give you about 2000 calories per day. That's probably 1/2 of what your body needs. Better figure on at least 2 pounds per person per day.

[Panzer1]

Take the REI pack back. It's too heavy.

Panzer

[neo]

my first section hike was in may 2001 from amicola falls in ga to deep gap nc
i had a 60 lb combat pack,it kicked my butt.i never let my pack get over 30 lbs
latter i got into the ultra light scene,ultra light gear has great improved in the last couple of years,there are quite a few home grown how to gear sites now
ultra light gear made by ultra light hikers,some i of the ones i have used are jacks r better and speer hammocks,hennessey hammocks,antigravity gear
dancing light gear,fanatic fringe,golite,commerical down bags have really
came a long way,marmot,western mountaineering,mountain hardware,
plus you have come to the right sight,lots a great experince here,any way
happy trails to ya,you have 2 years to learn,do some short hikes 3 or 4 days out
i have learned alot from other hikers on the trail also neo