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  1. #81
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    Actually, the whoe story WAS told quite plainly in the first post: The animal was being pushed too hard and the owner was upset and frustrated with his pet's hindering his hike. This was freely aknowledged by the original poster: If people here on WB were angry at the dog's owner, or were concerned about the animal's well-being, well it is easy to see where and how this concern orignated. And that is in the very post that started this discussion. To say "nobody has ever posted the whole story" in one post.....well,I have to disagree. I think the whole story was quite well told in the original post, and THAT is what prompted some of the stronger responses here.

  2. #82
    Wanna-be hiker trash
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    I too am ashamed by some here that posted - some of you flat out got it and others did not... while I feel that some of you pm'ed offers of help others choose to be the 1% of WB. I am frustrated and disgusted. I can appreciate your thoughts that it was too much for the dog. But your posts were directed at the choir... I too am not without fault. But some here suck on canal water. Don't rush to judge so quickly and then condemn before understanding. Innocent before guilt? Nobody ever has ever posted the whole story in the first post....

    I now understand why some come and go so quickly to WB... no Samaritans here.
    WOO, I have to second that, I was disgusted with the venom spewed out by a few of the people responding.

    Based on the OP's description of the situation, it did sound like this dog should be on its way home, but the nonsense and personal attacks did nothing but make the people writing the response feel self righteous while alienating someone who came here looking for actual advice.

    Just my two cents, but it sounds like there was a teachable moment that was lost somewhere towards the beginning of this festering excuse for a thread. We had the opportunity to explain why the situation was only going to get worse for the dog, and why it would be in the hikers' best interest to take action sooner than later. Instead the personal insults and accusations of animal abuse that were posted most likely caused the OP to just retreat back to her original plan (since it sounded like she had halfway decided on it anyway), and caused her to leave thinking that we're just a bunch of Internet trolls.

    I know that I've left some bonehead responses from time to time, but what bothers me is that recently I've noticed a lot of the vitriol has been directed at brand new members. When people first sign up, they don't realize what subjects have been debated to death already, or what issues are contentious on the site. Since the member's join dates and post count are next to each comment, maybe it would be a good idea to look at these before ripping into someone.

    Just last week I got a PM from someone else who had been a member for two days before he was torn apart after starting a thread that asked an honest but unpopular question, he wanted to know what the heck was wrong with the members here. This thead was no different, just the latest in a series of newbies that won't be back because some people thought it would be better to show how outraged they were about the question rather than say something useful.


    I'll stop ranting now...
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    Hey folks - I am very ill - with a lung infection so I am off for a few days... I will check pm's so lets move on - end the damn drama.
    hope you feel better soon------------------- wise old owl

  4. #84
    Registered User MissMagnolia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    WOO, I have to second that, I was disgusted with the venom spewed out by a few of the people responding.

    Based on the OP's description of the situation, it did sound like this dog should be on its way home, but the nonsense and personal attacks did nothing but make the people writing the response feel self righteous while alienating someone who came here looking for actual advice.

    Just my two cents, but it sounds like there was a teachable moment that was lost somewhere towards the beginning of this festering excuse for a thread. We had the opportunity to explain why the situation was only going to get worse for the dog, and why it would be in the hikers' best interest to take action sooner than later. Instead the personal insults and accusations of animal abuse that were posted most likely caused the OP to just retreat back to her original plan (since it sounded like she had halfway decided on it anyway), and caused her to leave thinking that we're just a bunch of Internet trolls.

    I know that I've left some bonehead responses from time to time, but what bothers me is that recently I've noticed a lot of the vitriol has been directed at brand new members. When people first sign up, they don't realize what subjects have been debated to death already, or what issues are contentious on the site. Since the member's join dates and post count are next to each comment, maybe it would be a good idea to look at these before ripping into someone.

    Just last week I got a PM from someone else who had been a member for two days before he was torn apart after starting a thread that asked an honest but unpopular question, he wanted to know what the heck was wrong with the members here. This thead was no different, just the latest in a series of newbies that won't be back because some people thought it would be better to show how outraged they were about the question rather than say something useful.


    I'll stop ranting now...
    I had a similar experience with a couple of my first posts and I developed a very negative perception of the majority of WB based on that. However, I managed to stick around, partially because I don't mind a good argument and I did also get some good advice. I still have a negative view of the general WB attitude towards new people but several people spoke up in support of me and I truly appreciated that. I am not an internet newbie, either, and I find the venom on this site worse than in many places online. However, I just try to wade through the nastiness and collect the useful information, of which I have gathered an amazing amount, so I'd like to say thank you to WB for that. I understand (now) that if I post something I should be prepared to be ripped to pieces and so I don't participate as much as I would have otherwise.


    In the meantime, three weeks until I start my thru! And I'm NOT bringing my dog.
    "Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must." ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  5. #85
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    I think people should assume it was a troll, and discuss such matters more generally and less personally.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Tarlin View Post
    Actually, the whoe story WAS told quite plainly in the first post: The animal was being pushed too hard and the owner was upset and frustrated with his pet's hindering his hike. This was freely aknowledged by the original poster: If people here on WB were angry at the dog's owner, or were concerned about the animal's well-being, well it is easy to see where and how this concern orignated. And that is in the very post that started this discussion. To say "nobody has ever posted the whole story" in one post.....well,I have to disagree. I think the whole story was quite well told in the original post, and THAT is what prompted some of the stronger responses here.
    Ok,good point,I think if you change "First Post" to "In One Post" That also has great meaning.In her first post it also uses wording that can have very different meanings,Like she said Anthony and the dog are so exausted,well here in america we say things like "I am starving" when in fact were just very hungry.Using a computer to comunicate is very different than talking with someone "face to face" or "on the scene" the confusion comes in whe we can't know the whole situation this is just a by-product of the technology.I certainly didn't convey my post well and only saw it that when i reread it.Saying,call the police or SPCA was my advise "to" her (if the situation was that dire),and not "On"her.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissMagnolia View Post
    I had a similar experience with a couple of my first posts and I developed a very negative perception of the majority of WB based on that. .... I understand (now) that if I post something I should be prepared to be ripped to pieces and so I don't participate as much as I would have otherwise.

    In the meantime, three weeks until I start my thru! And I'm NOT bringing my dog.
    This place is not so hard to figure out. I've weeded through thousands of posts spanning the last 10 years. If you pay attention, there's a VERY small minority here that actually know what they are talking about AND are pretty upset folks (or mad at the world for being born?). Once you spot the jerks, they are easy to ignore.

    Then there are some like me, who have a tendency to find/offer humor maybe too much.

    And you can spot the handful who know everything on every single aspect of being outdoors, ultra-light backpacking, giving birth, and the economic conditions of China. Those are the people that can fill this forum or a given topic up in a hurry. Weeding through them can take more effort.

    'Three weeks' MissMagnolia - wow, congrats - I am jealous!

    And you are NOT taking the dog??? What kind of animal person are you?!? This is just horrible - What gives you the right NOT to allow your dog the chance to complete it's trail dreams? You are not a good owner and your dog should be taken away from you and you should be punished!!

    Hope your journey is successful! Start slow, I have heard of now 3 people JUST over 100 miles - out for the year with knee injuries.

    Have fun!
    Last edited by Winds; 03-28-2012 at 15:29.

  8. #88
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    Even at its testiest, WB is much more civil than other forums I visit.

    One thing that rankles me is when noobs post pretending to want advice but really seek bias confirmation.
    "Can I thru hike in 90 days?"
    "Yes but here are other options, etc., etc."
    "Thanks. I'm young and strong so I'm going to go for it ..."
    Never heard from again.

    C'est la vie.
    GA -> ME
    '86 -> '89

  9. #89

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    WOO, Hope you feel better soon!

    geek

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikemor View Post
    ....... post pretending to want advice but really seek bias confirmation.
    It certainly happens at times, although I don't think they are consciously pretending.

  11. #91
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    Betsy not sure if you know this or not but dogs will push themselves very hard to please their owners and sort of 'keep on keepin on' even when severely hurt. I have heard first hand accounts of terriers, pit bulls and other mixed breed dogs hog hunting that will have their bellies opened up by a hog, guts hanging out and they will ignore it and keep fighting the hog and running along with the pack. I have seen retrievers in duck blinds with ice frozen on their faces and private parts but if you try to get them to stop hunting they will fight you. My dog squirrel hunts and he had a squirrel bite his nose and blood was gushing out to the point where I thought he was going to need stitches and he wouldn't even be bothered to let me look at it, he kept blowing the blood out and pulling away from me trying to run ahead to go find the next squirrel. I have heard stories of bird dogs passing out from heat exhaustion and ignoring being snake bit completely.

    All of this is to say, most dogs, when hurt (and especially when they are doing something they love with their beloved owner) won't just roll over and refuse to go further. If they have a slight injury they probably won't even show it. They naturally will ignore and keep on out of love for their owner/what they are doing. If the dog is having to be pushed, coerced, forced along to the point that your boyfriend is practically having to carry him, this is a sign that he is beyond just a little fatigued or tired. It is a sign that what he is doing is hurting him pretty badly. Just because they have done a lot of it before does not mean that it is fine. The dog might have only been mildly fatigued and hurting on previous hikes but it was able to ignore it and move along like nothing was wrong. Now with back to back 20 mile days the compounding fatigue is just allowing it to show up and become generally visible.

  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by TyTy View Post
    Betsy not sure if you know this or not but dogs will push themselves very hard to please their owners and sort of 'keep on keepin on' even when severely hurt. I have heard first hand accounts of terriers, pit bulls and other mixed breed dogs hog hunting that will have their bellies opened up by a hog, guts hanging out and they will ignore it and keep fighting the hog and running along with the pack. I have seen retrievers in duck blinds with ice frozen on their faces and private parts but if you try to get them to stop hunting they will fight you. My dog squirrel hunts and he had a squirrel bite his nose and blood was gushing out to the point where I thought he was going to need stitches and he wouldn't even be bothered to let me look at it, he kept blowing the blood out and pulling away from me trying to run ahead to go find the next squirrel. I have heard stories of bird dogs passing out from heat exhaustion and ignoring being snake bit completely.

    All of this is to say, most dogs, when hurt (and especially when they are doing something they love with their beloved owner) won't just roll over and refuse to go further. If they have a slight injury they probably won't even show it. They naturally will ignore and keep on out of love for their owner/what they are doing. If the dog is having to be pushed, coerced, forced along to the point that your boyfriend is practically having to carry him, this is a sign that he is beyond just a little fatigued or tired. It is a sign that what he is doing is hurting him pretty badly. Just because they have done a lot of it before does not mean that it is fine. The dog might have only been mildly fatigued and hurting on previous hikes but it was able to ignore it and move along like nothing was wrong. Now with back to back 20 mile days the compounding fatigue is just allowing it to show up and become generally visible.
    You are a bad boy. Don't you know that giving advice that doesn't go along with the OP's feelings is bordering on abuse?

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Tarlin View Post
    Actually, the whoe story WAS told quite plainly in the first post: The animal was being pushed too hard and the owner was upset and frustrated with his pet's hindering his hike. This was freely aknowledged by the original poster: If people here on WB were angry at the dog's owner, or were concerned about the animal's well-being, well it is easy to see where and how this concern orignated. And that is in the very post that started this discussion. To say "nobody has ever posted the whole story" in one post.....well,I have to disagree. I think the whole story was quite well told in the original post, and THAT is what prompted some of the stronger responses here.
    I happen to agree with you.

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Tarlin View Post
    Actually, the whoe story WAS told quite plainly in the first post:
    Indeed and that was the reason for the harsh responces. The OP was looking for someone to do them a HUGH favor and implied that it had to be done at no or low cost to them. If she hadn't gone into quite as much detail about how it came about that the dog "Rosie" had to take some time off, the comments might not have been so critical. But from what she did tell us, it was obvious the only good solution was for her BF and the dog to go straight home and we were pretty blunt in saying that.

    There are several leasons to this story: 1, you can push a dog too hard. 2, when your dog runs into trouble (and the chances are good that it will), you need to have the resources to deal with it - with both time and money.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  15. #95
    Registered User MissMagnolia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winds View Post
    This place is not so hard to figure out. I've weeded through thousands of posts spanning the last 10 years. If you pay attention, there's a VERY small minority here that actually know what they are talking about AND are pretty upset folks (or mad at the world for being born?). Once you spot the jerks, they are easy to ignore.

    Then there are some like me, who have a tendency to find/offer humor maybe too much.

    And you can spot the handful who know everything on every single aspect of being outdoors, ultra-light backpacking, giving birth, and the economic conditions of China. Those are the people that can fill this forum or a given topic up in a hurry. Weeding through them can take more effort.

    'Three weeks' MissMagnolia - wow, congrats - I am jealous!

    And you are NOT taking the dog??? What kind of animal person are you?!? This is just horrible - What gives you the right NOT to allow your dog the chance to complete it's trail dreams? You are not a good owner and your dog should be taken away from you and you should be punished!!

    Hope your journey is successful! Start slow, I have heard of now 3 people JUST over 100 miles - out for the year with knee injuries.

    Have fun!
    I'm super excited and thanks for your comment. I know. I am a terrible dog owner for leaving my best friend behind with friends. I should be punished for not wanting the responsibility of dealing with all the additional issues that can come up when hiking with a dog. Irresponsible me for wanting to get away from as many responsibilities as possible on my thru and not complicate something even more that's already hard enough while increasing my own chances of having to drop out for the dog's sake.

    I've also been following several people on Facebook who already dropped out with injuries. I plan to go slow and do only about eight miles a day to start out while also using my heart rate monitor to manage my speed and hopefully increase my endurance.
    "Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must." ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  16. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikemor View Post
    Even at its testiest, WB is much more civil than other forums I visit.

    One thing that rankles me is when noobs post pretending to want advice but really seek bias confirmation.
    "Can I thru hike in 90 days?"
    "Yes but here are other options, etc., etc."
    "Thanks. I'm young and strong so I'm going to go for it ..."
    Never heard from again.

    C'est la vie.
    funny how everyone plays the youth card with big mile days, most of the hikers i knew over the years that could and have gone big miles were not the young ones! it was people that have worked hard and played hard,not the ones coming off of mom and dads couch

  17. #97
    Registered User Danl's Avatar
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    You all ought let this one die a quick death. Rosie is resting with a trail angel after her owner took her to the Vet. Her paws were sore, but other than that just fine. If after a week of rest and Rosie returns to the trail she still isn't fairing well her owner would have stopped his hike for he loves his dog. Being the NOOB here and knowing what this hike will mean to me, when I start in 2013, I told his support person that I will go and get and house Rosie until he can come get her. The breed of dog described as:

    "These dogs have great stamina and you will tire long before they do. They need to be taken ondaily, long, brisk walks or jogs. In addition, it needs plenty of opportunity to run, preferably off the leash in a safe area. If these dogs are allowed to get bored, and are not walked or jogged daily, they can become destructive and start to display a wide array of behavioral problems."

    I only hope that this description is incorrect for I am not a elite hiker as some on WB. I only hope that when I need help and ask that you all don't beat me up. I know who you are.

    May this thread rest in peace.
    I start out the Day with nothing and by the end of the Day I still have most of it.

  18. #98
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    the only reason this dog is on the trail is cuz he couldn't find a babysitter for it. his own GF wouldn't take it

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