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  1. #1
    Yellow Jacket
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    Default UL Hammock user vs. Shelters/UL packs...

    Assuming you want to be an ULW (sub-10# base) hiker and use a hammock, the "Best" (?) means to acheive the lower weight is to go with down under quilt and over quilt, etc. If you were to do "the full JRB setup", you'll end up with ~4# shelter/bag/"pad" setup.

    Not having a traditional pad, what would you do those times when you sleep in a shelter, hostel, or bunk house that doesn't provide a matress?

    What would you use to act as your "virtual frame" in your ULW pack?

    What would you sit on, or lean against, at a great rocky out cropping with a view?

    Maybe a small piece of padding would be used for all three? Like a short piece of a Ridgerest? Or a 3.7oz Gossamer Gear NightLight Sleeping Pad (Torso length)?

    Just wondering?
    Yellow Jacket -- Words of Wisdom (tm) go here.

  2. #2
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    Here's an idea I picked up from Tadpole and Twinkle Toes on our thru. slice off a piece of your closed cell matt and use it as a waist protector under your hip belt. It doubles as a seat for those rocky areas, wet spots in the rain, and makes a good shock absorber on the gut. It would save weight if it were from the pad you sleep on, and not an extra.

    A downer is when it's hot this rig sweats you up pretty good but i got used to it and it was nice to have a seat without carrying one.
    Tadpole lost about a thousand pounds on his hike and I think he was actually using it to make up the difference for the loss around the waist.

    Being hammockers ourselves, we went with the Speer idea and custom made our own. I took an army poncho liner and turned it into a cacoon with velcro and draw stings at each end. It works well and we don't usually sleep in shelters. "ME's" freaked out about rodents and such so we spend our nights in the trees, rain or stars. Most of the time, if we do opt for a shelter, we can tie up our rigs off the rafters and have slept above covered picnic tables when the place is jammed.
    We're always tweaking our system and stay happy hammocking. Sleeping on the ground plain ol sucks!

  3. #3
    Registered User Smee's Avatar
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    Default UL Hammock user vs. Shelters/...

    First of all, going to ground or using a shelter is simply NOT in our vernacular. We ALWAYS hang.

    We do carry a 12"x20" piece of closed cell foam pad (K-Mart blue pad) that fits in two pockets on the pack (top and bottom) and serves as a back pad. It is easily removeable for use as a sitting pad and is easily replaced on the pack.

    The pack doesn't need a frame - it's only got 20 lbs in it on a weekend, 25 for 4-5 days.

    For those nights in a Hostel that doesn't provide a mattress - make do with what you've got in the pack. We're talking an occasional night versus months in the woods. It's trying to address all these rare contingencies that cause pack weight to grow.
    Regards,
    Smee
    www.jacksrbetter.com

  4. #4
    Registered User neo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smee
    First of all, going to ground or using a shelter is simply NOT in our vernacular. We ALWAYS hang.

    We do carry a 12"x20" piece of closed cell foam pad (K-Mart blue pad) that fits in two pockets on the pack (top and bottom) and serves as a back pad. It is easily removeable for use as a sitting pad and is easily replaced on the pack.

    The pack doesn't need a frame - it's only got 20 lbs in it on a weekend, 25 for 4-5 days.

    For those nights in a Hostel that doesn't provide a mattress - make do with what you've got in the pack. We're talking an occasional night versus months in the woods. It's trying to address all these rare contingencies that cause pack weight to grow.
    i like the way you put it smee,we always hang,i cant imagin sleeping on the
    ground or shelter,once a hammock hanger always a hammock hanger neo

  5. #5
    Yellow Jacket
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    Quote Originally Posted by neo
    once a hammock hanger always a hammock hanger
    Not enitrely true. I use to sleep in a hammock, but have found the ground just easier to deal with. Besides I sleep on the floor of my bedroom (10yo carpet over padding) probably 30-40% of the nights during the year. I typically find it more comfortable (especially in the summer, as the bed just feels too hot). Not sure why, but I have frequently slept on the floor since I was a very young child.

    The one issue I haven't been able to work out in my hammock is sore knee problems. Since I get very little, if any, support under the middle section of my legs, my knees tend to "lock-up" and become quite sore. Bending them and leaning them against the side of the hammock works great, but not when it is cold.
    Yellow Jacket -- Words of Wisdom (tm) go here.

  6. #6
    Section Hiker, 1,040 + miles, donating member peter_pan's Avatar
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    Hey, I like this string.....

    This is to verify that Smee and I have not "been to ground" in over 2 years....we are confident in our gear well into single digits....two weeks ago we took a rookie with us totally outfitted in our earlier prototypes...started in the 3 inches and still falling snow at Cawtaba.. 4 + inches on McAffie's knob and hung out along the low cold creek vic of Lamberts meadow shelter....we were so warm we had to remove socks to cool enough to be comfortable...

    Smee overstates our weights....17 - 18 lbs for a weekend...22 for 4-5 days...definately no frame needed...also the only thing that is not soft is the kitchen, which is total within the .85 L pot, which is easily packed so as not to be felt... even if one were to use some totally frameless pack, like the Thompson or Go-lite Breeze a pot of this size is easy stored away from the body...( our two pegs are carried in an outer pocket)...

    Our sit pads are integrated into our pack backs...but even if they were not we would still carry a small sit pad, 1.5 oz, in an outer pocket.

    Shelter floors are for the mice...so are the over used tent sites adjacent to most shelters.

    If one must have a go to ground capability, for the rare occasion you can make a copy of Gardevilles balloon pad/air mattress...We made one 24x50 with 8 sections for 2 " balloons...total weight 3.1, including 9 balloons-one spare....if lungs are weak, a balloon pump from wally world can be found weighing 2.1 oz....use .8 oz nylon instead of 1.1 and it drops to 2.9 oz....best part is the size...it folds smaller than a wallet with out the pump...or rolls to a tube 8 " x 2 " in diameter with the pump...Ours resides in the box of passed experiments that worked but are not necessary...therefore are left home...but it would be a way to be comfortable on the groung if you had to have that capability...

    Ultralight, freedom, comfort, warm and dry, are all part of the well outfitted hammock hangers style...Come and hang out...you'll love it.

    We will be at Trail Fest and Trail Days if you want to check this out.

    Pan
    ounces to grams
    WWW.JACKSRBETTER.COM home of the Nest and No Sniveler underquilts and Bear Mtn Bridge Hammock

  7. #7
    Section Hiker, 1,040 + miles, donating member peter_pan's Avatar
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    Yellow Jacket,

    If you put a bag with spare clothes, rain suit, first aid kit (assuming it is soft- mine is) under the back of the knees you can sleep on your back with a bend in the knees.....if you prefer the side sleep position an under quilt will protect the sides as well, so you won't get the cold knees.... hope these thoughts help you.

    Pan
    ounces to grams
    WWW.JACKSRBETTER.COM home of the Nest and No Sniveler underquilts and Bear Mtn Bridge Hammock

  8. #8
    GAME 2000
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    Another prospective.

    I've been in a couple of situations on backpacking trips where I slept in a shelter instead of my hammock by choice. In those situations, I had adequate pads to go the shelter route, sleep on the ground under my tarp or to hang in a hammock. Those situations are the exception rather than the rule. If I didn't have adequate pads to sleep in a shelter I would have hung a hammock somewhere but my choice in those situations was the shelter.

    There are only a few situations where this has been an issue. The first that comes to mind is the AT along the Smokies. Sections hikers are required to have reservations and sleep in shelters... at least that is the rule and is what I did last summer on my Smokies section hike.

    The Benton MacKaye Trail in Georgia has one shelter. There is a rather long stretch of trail along private property where it is illegal to camp and they provide a shelter in that section. When I hiked it earlier this year with by backpacking partner we used the shelter even though it was his first time to take backpacking hammock... he is young and impressionable so I didn't want to encourage him to break the rules just for our convience. Besides, I worry that people camping illegal in that section of trail could cause for the private landowners to withdraw their permission for the trail to pass through their property and since we were using self inflating pads as part of our hammock insulation it wasn't that big of a deal.

    The other situation that I remember using a shelter when I would have rather hammock camped was this last winter on the Alabama Pinhoti Trail. It was nasty weather, cold with very high winds and my two backpacking buddies were tenting. Due to the short days and our desire to get miles in we were left in a delima for our choice of camping spots. (And this is were it gets tricky... when I backpack with tenters we find a suitable spot for tents and then I make the best of what I can for a hammock spot. My point is that your choices might be different when you backpack with ground dwellers.) This left us in a section where darkness was approaching and we couldn't find good tent sites for the weather conditions at hand... but we new we could reach a shelter at about the time darkness sit in. When we got to the shelter it was just too exposed for me to want to hang a hammock anywhere nearby... and since I had a cushy pad for my hammock insulation I took the option of sleeping in the shelter. Now, would this have played out differently if my backpacking buddies were also hammocking? Don't know for sure because I was focusing on finding tent sites first; it might have... but the shelter sounded pretty good in those conditions.

    Thankfully, there are options and hopefully each person can find one that they are happy with and enjoy their time in the woods. Whether you are hanging in a hammock or sleeping on the ground or sleeping in a shelter is a choice that you make. I like hanging in a hammock but I currently use padding that is appropriate for a hammock, a shelter or the ground; I use a tarp that works well over hammock or on the ground; and I carry a light piece of plastic (0.8 mil?) that can be used as ground cloth. I also carry a small umbrella, rain jacket and rain pants. I guess I don't qualify as an ultralighter anymore, but I do make it to the woods on occasion, enjoy my time there and usually get everything into my GoLite Breeze backpack.

    Youngblood

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