Bearpaw Bad Experience

[arctic_one]

I've had an incredibly bad experience with John at Bearpaw. I called him because I was torn between a Pyra and Bearden and I wanted some modifications. I wanted a light single wall tent with a full net door and floor so that I could have the doors open for ventilation and still be protected from bugs. I was set on a Pyra but he convinced me that a Luna was better suited for me as it already had the full net door and he could easily modify the floor so it was full. He also said it would weigh about 16 oz. I got the tent, weighed it and it was 26 oz not 16. I emailed him to ask why. He said that he had never made a Pyra with a full net door so wasn't sure about the weight and it was what it was. I was floored... I ordered the Luna. He insisted that I didn't... apparently he failed to note that I ended up wanting the Luna and so made me the Pyra which weighed way more than he said it would. I will admit I didn't notice that on the invoice, in the notes, that he put Pyra. I honestly thought I was getting a Luna and didn't notice the mistake. I thought he knew what he was doing.

He refuses to admit his mistake, so now I'm out over $400 and stuck with a tent that is only a few ounces less than my current one. I've contacted the BBB but I don't think it will help.

Does anyone have suggestions as how to go further with this? It's not like I can go above his head as he is the owner.

[turtle fast]

Unfortunately, especially with a custom modified shelter it sounds like you are stuck with it. On the invoice it said Pyra, so unfortunately you do not have a leg to stand on that it was a product switch as the product matches the invoice. On the bright side, at least you got a shelter that was a few ounces less than what you had. Like you said you can't go any higher than the owner and if he thinks he already would lose your future business over this their is no incentive for him to lose $400.

[arctic_one]

Unfortunately, especially with a custom modified shelter it sounds like you are stuck with it. On the invoice it said Pyra, so unfortunately you do not have a leg to stand on that it was a product switch as the product matches the invoice. On the bright side, at least you got a shelter that was a few ounces less than what you had. Like you said you can't go any higher than the owner and if he thinks he already would lose your future business over this their is no incentive for him to lose $400.

Well, that's unfortunate. I guess it's a lesson learned. Check the small print and confirm phone orders, I guess. Argh.

[WIAPilot]

You may have some recourse if you paid with a credit card. I know that AMEX Platinum covers $300 per purchase and $1000 per year if you wish to return an item that the merchant won't accept. It doesn't matter if it was miscommunication or what. They will still return your money up to that amount. Call your credit card company and good luck.

[Rain Man]

Does anyone have suggestions as how to go further with this? It's not like I can go above his head as he is the owner.

Small claims court? (Though private mediation/arbitration might be better.) I disagree that you are out of luck if the invoice matches the product, as it's not the product you ordered (assuming you are correct about your version/remembrance).

Rain Man

.

[Slo-go'en]

This is one of those situations where I'd love to hear Bearpaws side of the story.

[arctic_one]

You may have some recourse if you paid with a credit card. I know that AMEX Platinum covers $300 per purchase and $1000 per year if you wish to return an item that the merchant won't accept. It doesn't matter if it was miscommunication or what. They will still return your money up to that amount AND you still keep the tent. Call your credit card company and good luck.

Thanks for the advice! I'll check into it!

[arctic_one]

Thanks Rain Man! I'm pretty sure I remember how the conversation went as he is the only company that I contacted about a tent. He even emailed me to say that the Pyra doesn't work well with a full door and that he hadn't done that combination before when I asked why the weight was so off. In a later email he said that he has put plenty of full doors on Pyras. Which is it? I also emailed him to thank him for sending the Luna (I didn't know it was a Pyra as they look the same)... why would I thank him for a Luna if I wanted and thought I ordered a Pyra? So frustrating!

[leaftye]

Yeah, that really sucks. Custom orders are tough because of how much communication can be screwed up. When I ordered my custom quilt that cost $550+, I was very explicit about what I wanted, and got written confirmation multiple times.

[WIAPilot]

Leaftye makes a good point. In my business, I talk with customers all the time. I then immediately follow with an email that summarizes what we ageed on.

I know this is sort of locking the barn doors after the horses have escaped, but hopefully it will help others. Good luck.

[arctic_one]

Thanks WIAPilot! I've phoned my bank and my card will cover it once I've returned it. I can't believe I have to do this. So much for customer service.

[arctic_one]

I will admit I didn't notice that he put Pyra on the invoice. I just skimmed over the details and paid him. Lesson learned!

[arctic_one]

Ok, now does anyone know of a reputable company where I can buy a single wall tent with a full net floor and door that is below 20 oz?

[wayoutthere]

First let me say that these forums are not for people who have a vendetta against someone or a company. And since your joined date is today, it looks like you join whiteblaze just to discredit a company. That is completely unethical and that make me very suspicious of your motives.

I have used bearpaw wilderness on numerous occasions to modify my SL5 and SL3. On both occasions they were upfront with what they were doing and they did very good work. Even when I wanted a vestibule modified slightly (that they had done earlier on my SL5), they did it without charge (except for the return shipping).

Pursue what you need to do outside of these forums. You are just ruining your own credibility.

[arctic_one]

First let me say that these forums are not for people who have a vendetta against someone or a company. And since your joined date is today, it looks like you join whiteblaze just to discredit a company. That is completely unethical and that make me very suspicious of your motives.

I have used bearpaw wilderness on numerous occasions to modify my SL5 and SL3. On both occasions they were upfront with what they were doing and they did very good work. Even when I wanted a vestibule modified slightly (that they had done earlier on my SL5), they did it without charge (except for the return shipping).

Pursue what you need to do outside of these forums. You are just ruining your own credibility.

I appreciate that you have had good service from bearpaw, but that has not been my case. I ordered a 16 oz Luna and got a 26 oz Pyra. Unfortunately, it was discussed over the phone and I have no recourse. I admit I made a mistake in not noticing that he put pyra on the invoice, but I thought that since he was so against me getting a Pyra and actually persuaded me to get a Luna that he would remember it. I have never posted on a forum before and only did so because I needed advice. One such helpful person did help and now I am going to get my money back through my credit card. Not fun.

I have no credibility to ruin. I am simply an avid hiker that thought she was ordering a certain product and standing up for myself when the manufacturer made and sent the wrong product. I work hard for my money and don't want to waste it on something that I did not order. Why should I have to lose money when it wasn't my mistake?

[MuddyWaters]

Im assuming the shelter is cuben and 12 oz.
Even with 0.75 oz/yd netting, it is clear that you would need more than 4 oz of netting. floor is 9x5.5=50ft2=5+ yds just for the floor with no slack.. At minimum with just a floor the shelter would weigh about 18 oz . With the full wall door ~2 0z + zipper ~2-3 oz, you should have had NO reason to expect a shelter that weighed less than about 22-23 oz MINIMUM. This is simple math, for both parties involved. There was no way you were getting a 16 oz Luna with the netting you asked for. You must have misunderstood.

[MuddyWaters]

I would say 16 oz would have been about right for a net door, but definitely NOT with a net floor too.

[Wise Old Owl]

So Artic One....Way out there has a point... airing it out here has "whoops" written all over it... Figure out how to work with the guy and find a solution between you both.... And a Net Floor? really? IF you cannot solve it suggest a pair of scissors.

[arctic_one]

Im assuming the shelter is cuben and 12 oz.
Even with 0.75 oz/yd netting, it is clear that you would need more than 4 oz of netting. floor is 9x5.5=50ft2=5+ yds just for the floor with no slack.. At minimum with just a floor the shelter would weigh about 18 oz . With the full wall door ~2 0z + zipper ~2-3 oz, you should have had NO reason to expect a shelter that weighed less than about 22-23 oz MINIMUM. This is simple math, for both parties involved. There was no way you were getting a 16 oz Luna with the netting you asked for. You must have misunderstood.

Maxine	Apr 11
to John

Thanks John. How much do you figure it will weigh?

John Stultz [email protected]	Apr 11
to me

It is hard to say since I haven't weighed one in .51 oz cuben. I would say about 10 oz for the tent and 6 oz for the netting.

But the point is moot now as he has agreed to refund my money.

[arctic_one]

It has been resolved. John has agreed to refund the money. Thanks for all those that supported me!