Lots of advice needed for our first though-hike on the CT!

[Dave n Julie W]

Hello all,
My wife, Julie, and I are going to be starting the CT on July 13-14. This will be our first big through hike attempt ever. I'm posting here because we need ALOT of advice. I've been backpacking and climbing my whole life, but only for trips up to a week. I'm one of those guys in the group you all blow past, sweating profusely and wearing a 60 lb. pack for 5days! That said, we know that we MUST adopt the ultra-lite discipline of packing if we are going to have success on the CT. My wife has less backpacking experience than I, but is definately up to the challenge and every bit as enthusiastic. We're planning the trip for 35 days. Now that you know a little bit about us, let me ask you guys a few of our biggest questions about gear. We're not really looking to buy the most expensive, absolute best performing gear, but rather things that are of good performance for mid-range prices.

1. Shoes: What shoes!? I have always worn heavy duty, high ankle support, backpacking boots. I want to use something much lighter but can't decide between a trail runner, light hiker, or a light mid boot. Can you guys suggest some specific manufacturers/models/shoes you have had success with? We also need some direction for what my wife will wear. We're confused and don't want to buy 3 pairs of expensive shoes each just to find out we don't like them...

2. Sleeping bag for my wife. She needs about a 20 degree down bag. What packs well for you all?

3. Clothing: How much of each type of clothing should we be considering? Like how many pairs of socks, underwear, shirts, ect?

We have lots more questions, but lets just start there! We'd really appreciate any good info you guys might like to suggest. Thanks!

Dave and Julie

[q-tip]

Here is my final gear list for my CT hike that starts on July 4. Hope this helps,

Charlie

Colorado Trail Gear List-7
Big Three:	Weight Oz.
Granite Gear Crown 60	35.5
o Pack Cover-	1.0
· TT Contrail	33.0
o Ground Cloth-	1.7
o Stakes (8)-	0.0
o Stuff Sack-	0.0
· WM Alpinlite 20 Degree Down Bag	36.6
o Stuff Sacks	0.0
· Thermarest Neo Air	14.0
Pad Stuff Sack	1.0
Total:	122.8
	20.8
Clothing (Carried)
· MB Wind Pants-	3.1
· Marmot Mica Jacket-	7.0
· Marmot Dri-Climb Vest	6.2
· Mont Bell Down Camp Jacket-	6.6
· Silk Lite Weight Sleep Shirt-	2.8
· Silk LiteWeight Sleep Leggings-	3.2
· Sleep Socks (1)-Polartec	2.6
· Hiking Socks (X-tra-1)-	1.5
· Sock Liners (X-tra-1)-	1.0
· Nike Hiking Leggings-	4.7
· Fleece Hat (1)-	0.0
· Running Gloves	2.0
Camp Gloves	1.0
· Garbage Bag Rain Shirt-	2.1
· Running Hat-	2.0
· Stuff Sack-	0.8
· Sunglasses	2.0
· Dirty Girl Gaiters	1.2
· Mesh Camp Shoes	2.5
· Pillow Cover	1.7
Balaclava	2.0
Bandana	0.0
Rubber Rain Gloves	0.5
Total:	56.5
	24.0
Hygiene/Medical/Emergency/Stuff
· Tooth Brush-Toothpaste	2.0
· First Aid Kit-	1.3
o Medical Tape-	-
o Gauze-1 Roll-	-
o 3 Band Aids-	-
o 3 Alcohol Wipes-	-
o Tweezer-
· Toilet Paper-	1.0
· Hand Sanitizer-	1.0
· Vitamin I-	0.0
· Medications-	11.0
· Sun Screen-	1.0
· Lip Balm-	0.5
· Duct Tape-	1.0
· Emergency Kit-	1.3
o Needle-Thread-	-
o Safety Pins (4)-	-
o Tent-Pad Repair Kit-	-
· Bic Lighter (1)-	0.4
· Waterproof Matches (1 Box)-	0.3
· Spare Batteries-	0.0
· Pen-Paper-	1.0
· Head Lamp-	3.0
· Trail Maps-	3.0
· Deet-	1.0
· Extra Plastic Bags-	1.0
Stuff Sack	1.4
Total:	31.2
Cook System:
· Soto Stove + Windscreen	3.3
· Stuff Sack (Stove)-	0.5
· Fuel (8 oz)-	6.0
· Cook Pot-	4.8
· Spoon- (2)	1.5
· Stuff Sack (Food)-	1.6
· Bear Rope-	1.5
· Towel-	0.5
· Pot Stabilizer	1.0
Total:	20.7
Water Treatment:
· Steri Pen w/ Batteries-Case-	4.6
Spare Batteries	1.0
· Aqamira Tabs	0.5
· Nalgene UL Water Bottle (1)-	3.0
Nalgene Soft Bottle	2.0
· MSR Bladder (80 oz)-	6.2
Total:	17.3
	3.8
Wearing:
· Ex Officio Long Sleeve Shirt-	7.1
· Running Shorts-	3.2
· Hiking Socks-	1.5
· Sock Liners-	0.9
· Hiking Poles-Leki-	19.4
· Montrail AT + Train Runners	30.0
Nikon Coolpix 12 mpx	6.0
· Knife/Whistle/Compass-	1.4
· Heart Rate Monitor-	3.2
· Knee Brace	6.0
Ankle Brace	8.0
Total:	86.7
	15.0
Electronics:
· MP3/Headphones/Charger-	3.0
· Cell Phone/Charger	4.0
Total:	7.0
Other:
· Ditty Bag-	1.2
o Credit Cards (2)-	1.0
o Cash-	-
o Drivers License-	-
o Insurance Card-	-
o Phone Card-	-
o Extra Reading Glasses (1)-	0.7
o Emergency Numbers-	0.0
Total:	2.9
Total Cost:
Food-Water
Water Carried-	33.0
Food-5 Days-1.5 Lbs/Day (26 OZ.)	130.0
Totals:	163.0
Grand Totals:
Base Weight In Pack:	258.4
Weight Worn:	86.7
Skin-Out Base Weight:	345.1
Weight Pack+Food+Water	421.4
Total Skin Out Weight:	508.1
Total Skin Out/Body Weight:	2908.1
Bounce Box:
Blue Foam Pad	6.0
Wild Oasis Tarp	14.0
Oasis Ground Sheet	2.2
FOOD:
TVP-
Powdered Milk
Cous Cous
Beef Jerky
Nuts
Toffee Cashews
Brown Gravy
Creamer
Large Canister Gas
Small Canister Gas
Chargers
Marmot Vest
Steripen/Headlamp Batteries
Poly Processing Flag
Neoprene Ankle Pads
Extra GG Ground Sheet
Empty Blowout Bottles
Sil Net

[Cookerhiker]

Hello all,
My wife, Julie, and I are going to be starting the CT on July 13-14. This will be our first big through hike attempt ever. I'm posting here because we need ALOT of advice. I've been backpacking and climbing my whole life, but only for trips up to a week. I'm one of those guys in the group you all blow past, sweating profusely and wearing a 60 lb. pack for 5days! That said, we know that we MUST adopt the ultra-lite discipline of packing if we are going to have success on the CT. My wife has less backpacking experience than I, but is definately up to the challenge and every bit as enthusiastic. We're planning the trip for 35 days. Now that you know a little bit about us, let me ask you guys a few of our biggest questions about gear. We're not really looking to buy the most expensive, absolute best performing gear, but rather things that are of good performance for mid-range prices.

1. Shoes: What shoes!? I have always worn heavy duty, high ankle support, backpacking boots. I want to use something much lighter but can't decide between a trail runner, light hiker, or a light mid boot. Can you guys suggest some specific manufacturers/models/shoes you have had success with? We also need some direction for what my wife will wear. We're confused and don't want to buy 3 pairs of expensive shoes each just to find out we don't like them...

2. Sleeping bag for my wife. She needs about a 20 degree down bag. What packs well for you all?

3. Clothing: How much of each type of clothing should we be considering? Like how many pairs of socks, underwear, shirts, ect?

We have lots more questions, but lets just start there! We'd really appreciate any good info you guys might like to suggest. Thanks!

Dave and Julie

Re. clothes, I don't think you need more than 3 layers for the time of year you're hiking: hiking shirt, fleece sweater, rain jacket. On my thruhike last year, I hiked wearing hiking shorts and a short-sleeved polypro shirt. Only on a few of the coldest mornings did I start with an additional layer - usually, my thin Marmot rain jacket which I shed within the first hour. Upon completion of each day's hike, I changed into long pants and a warmer long-sleeved polypro and as the evening got colder, added layers starting with the rain jacket and the fleece only if necessary - probably only 10 of the 36 nights on the trail did I need the fleece.

Of course, it helped that we were early-to-bed, early-to-rise types so we hit the sack before it got too cold. I highly recommend that you do this to take advantage of the CT's sunny mornings. In other words, don't sleep until 7 or 8 and waste the sunshine. We were up at 5, on the trail a little after 6 every day.

You should also have a warm hat - they don't take up much space - and gloves. And don't forget rain pants which you'll likely use more when in camp rather than when hiking.

I only brought one extra pair of socks and had no problems.

Looking ahead as you plan your hike, make sure you partake of Mags' excellent website. And for resupply planning, this WB thread has everything you need to know. Feel free to post additions to it, including any questions you might have.

It's a stupendous trail! Good luck to you. You'll see my CT journal linked below.

[jbsbestfan]

I have only done 2 sections so far (20-21 last year) and I am starting my thru-hike on June 24 this year. Here are my thoughts.

Shoes: The trail that I have been on and also what I have seen in pics is very well kept and heavy boots will clearly no be needed. We did find a few scree fields which were a sprained ankle waiting to happen. My ankles sprain easy from old tennis injuries so I really need high top protection. I love the Salomon Wings Sky GTX. They are basically a high top trail runner. Lighter than most boots but the heel and ankle holds really snug. If your ankles are strong, I would definitely go with a trail runner.

Clothes: These are a must: rainpants, waterproof gloves, good rain shell, warm hat for sleeping. When the rain comes (and it does come a lot), it is very cold rain and usually accompanied by a temp drop. I had no long pants, just put on rain pants if it was cold. I took all thin MH shirts and just layered up if cold. I did not take any specific sleeping clothes, just extra exofficio undies and MH shirt for sleeping only. My bag was warm enough I did not need heavy clothes at night. I had a patagonia nano puff and arcteryx fleece last year as mid layers, and even though I will miss the fleece, I will not take it this year so warmest I can do is a light shirt, nano puff jacket and arcteryx shell. If you are moving this should be sufficient...if not moving, get in ur bag.
Hope this helps.

[fiddlehead]

Ankle problems start with a pack that's too heavy.
If you are going to go lightweight (say under 20 lbs without food and water), then you could probably wear trail runners or the lightweight boots.

As for manufacturers, in my opinion fit is so important as long as you remember you get what you pay for.
I do look at tread and weight but fit is no. 1 on my list.
And I always buy them at least a half size (and usually a full size) too big.

Clothes, no need for too many pairs of extras as you can wash and dry what you have most days.

Have fun.

[Hole-In-The-Hat]

Dave, you're asking some good questions! Your goal of going light is a good one - it makes a huge difference in your distance and comfort. It sounds like you're shooting for around 15 miles a day - I wouldn't want to do that with a heavy pack!

Shoes: I agree with fiddlehead, the fit is most important. I'm currently using the Vasque Velocity trail runner and like it. I used to think that I needed a heavy boot because of weak ankles, but I've learned that just the opposite is true. A light shoe puts me in touch with the terrain so I'm stepping with more precision vs. just stomping along. Most people think that taking a pound off your feet is worth 4 or 6 or 10 pounds off your back - the claims vary, but it definitely makes a big difference in comfort and distance. Do some training trips with trail runners to be sure they work for you - you probably won't go back.

Sleeping bag: if I were buying a bag today, I'd get the Western Mountaineering Ultralite 20-degree down bag. It's ~29 ounces and holds up well, and gets good reviews. Not cheap, though - ~$400 range new. To significantly reduce your weight, though, you're going to need to get the weight of your sleeping bag, pack, and tent/shelter down.

Other than socks, I only take one set of clothing. Socks I take one pair for hiking, and a 2nd pair that always is dry for camp and sleeping - and would be a spare for hiking if needed. As fiddlehead said, you can wash them out occasionally - and the trail isn't a beauty contest anyway.

[rocketsocks]

Dave I'm gonna echo what has be said with a twist.Rather than tell you what I use,I'll tell what I'd like to buy and use,if money was not a issue.
bag-anything from western Mountaineering,those bags are light and don't take up much room,good stuff.
pack-any of the Dyneema packs that are in the 1 1/2 to 2 lb.range,but don't exceed the weight in pounds that the pack is rated for,or it may be uncomfortable or could burst at the seems.
Pad-thats anybodies guess,something light weight that will provide for your level of comfort.
tent-2 come to mind The Tarp tent "Contrail"or the "Notch"notch has more room for stowing gear if thats what you like.

Hope this helps a little and as always .Have a great hike.

[trailnametba]

i've already completed segments 13 and 14 the last couple of weeknends, this will make my hike a little easier and has given me the chance to test out my stuff. This will be my first big hike as well, i'll start on 6/9 with some breaks. here's what i'm going with, trail running Nike's, Backpack: Osprey Kestrel 68: 4lb, Tent: northface phoenix 2 - 3.7lbs, Sleeping Bag: 5 degree 600 fill down with stuff sack - 3lbs, Ridgerest sleeping pad, Ziploc bag with license, credit card, cash, insurance card, guidebook, Book, trekking poles, headlamp, earplugs, stuff sacks, paracord, watch, lighter, spork, toothbrush/toothpaste, hand sanitizer, sunscreen, chap stick, deet, TP, Aqua Mira drops, Platypus Big Zip SL - 3L, 1 nalgene,
Clothing
Melanzana, rain jacket, 1 pair convertible shorts/pants, 1 bandana, 2 pair underwear, thermal pants, sunglasses, 1 t-shirt, 1 long sleeved underarmor shirt, gloves, beenie, down booties, 2 pair hiking socks, 1 sun hat, mesh shorts, – 6 lbs

Total Weight w/o food/water = ~ 17 lbs

Hiking partner is bringing: med kit, cook set, soap, knife

Food
Breakfast: instant oatmeal, pop tarts, cliff bars, instant coffee
Lunch – salami/cheese/crackers, tortillas, bread, peanut butter, Nutella
Dinner: dehydrated soups with instant rice, tortellini, macaroni & cheese
Snacks: granola bars, GORP, raisinettes, yogurt/peanut butter pretzels, jerky, candy bars, combos, shotblocks, crystal light packets

[Mags]

My advice? Don't sweat the gear. Not to say you should take a dutch oven..but don't worry about having THE. EXACT. GEAR.

This book is great one for traditional backpackers hoping to lighten their load IMO:
http://www.amazon.com/Lighten-Up-Com.../dp/0762737344

If you want more in depth discussion and theory to go with the tips, Andrew Skurka's book is a nice clinic in book form:
http://andrewskurka.com/product/ulti...rs-gear-guide/



Ultimately, gear is the LEAST important part of backpacking. Gear is important..but beautiful sunsets, gorgeous ridge walks and stunning wildflowers are far more important than having the right titanium whatcha-ma-hoosey.

(And, though I am biased, I think my Colorado Trail article referenced earlier ain't a bad place to start. )

[Dave n Julie W]

Hey All, thanks for the quick and informative responses! I'll start reading through all this great information as soon as I can get a bit more time away from work. After all, I pretty much sold my soul to the department to get 5 weeks off!

One quick shoe question: I was trying some shoes on today after work and there seems to be a lot of diversity in the "trail runners"... Some of them look like little more than meaner road runners and some look more like light hikers. What do you look for in a trail runner that you really intend to use for endurance hiking? Some of them don't look like they would hold up. Shoes are hard for me because I don't want to buy 3 or 4 pairs of $100+ shoes to find out I don't like any of em! Any opinions on the Merrell Cameleon4 Ventilator? I liked they way it felt, but the sales rep tried to dissuade me from the brand because he said they don't hold up. I've owned mostly Merrell boots for the past 7 years and havn't had any problems there...

Thanks guys!

[Cookerhiker]

My advice? Don't sweat the gear... Ultimately, gear is the LEAST important part of backpacking. Gear is important..but beautiful sunsets, gorgeous ridge walks and stunning wildflowers are far more important than having the right titanium whatcha-ma-hoosey.

Wiser words rarely spoken. Save this one!!

[fiddlehead]

I don't always trust sales clerks when they say things like that.
I often think that they have a 2nd reason (like the boss telling them to push a certain brand???)

Asking advice here is probably a better idea and wise choice.
I don't have that particular shoe but I've always liked Merrells
That said, that shoe looks like more than I would want (it looks heavy)

Maybe a good idea to use the search function and read over some recent threads in the running shoe game.
And maybe get a second opinion from a different store on the durability of those Merrillls.
Also, maybe a call to the company to see if they are going to stand behind them for a 500 mile hike. (they should)

Just my 2 cents.

[jbsbestfan]

I read your post earlier today and didnt realize that this was almost the same shoe I had purchased previously. In 2009 I purchased the Chameleon Stretch Goretex. My thoughts. I love the shoe, but take note of the following: it is a hiking shoe (not trail runner), mine was heavy, and the insoles are crappy and basically worthless. However, once I replaced the insoles, I enjoyed these shoes. I have since retired them to rainy day wearing around because of the worn tread and gore tex. I occasionally wear them on really short and easy hikes with the wife. One last note.......I hit a rocky patch in these one time and bruised the ball of my foot through the sole. All this being said, insoles can be replaced and the weight is thus the biggest issue, hopefully technology lightened the shoe over the past 3 years.
Have you checked out the Salomon Fastpacker shoe....somebody had them on sale recently.

[trailnametba]

it's all about fit. my feet like nike's, so i get nike trail runners (1/2 size larger than normal). i suggest getting a trail runner from a brand you already like and wear. imo...you don't need to get merrell, salomon, montrail, vasque, or any of these "outdoorsy" brands, they cost alot. just get something that fits well and then buy at least 1/2 size larger.

[Hole-In-The-Hat]

If the Chameleon4 Ventilator fits you well -- that's a big plus.

I personally would be looking for a shoe more in the ~28 ounce range (looks like this one is ~36 oz), something under $100. I like ones that have a full "rock plate" under the forefoot, which some in the ~28-ounce range have and some don't.

Also, I really don't like Gore-Tex. To my thinking, it reduces breathability and adds weight, with little on the plus side. If you get any significant rain - let alone occasionally fording a stream - they WILL get wet. And when they get wet, it's better to have shoes that will dry more quickly. Gore-Tex will keep you dry if you only have light sprinkles or slightly wet trails - but only for the first couple hundred miles, then the Gore-Tex usually cracks and leaks anyway. Just my opinion...

[Dave n Julie W]

Thanks all for the shoe advice! I believe I may have found the shoe I will be giving a try: the La Sportiva Raptor. This shoe fits my foot like a glove and feels much more stable than I thought a trail running shoe could. I read alot of reviews and it seems this shoe may be worth a try. It's a little pricey, but not as much as some I've looked at. It also seems very tough. I'm not too concerned with saving a few bucks for the confidence that I've got a great 500+ mile shoe on my foot that won't be a problem for me on the trail.

As for Mags advice, we completely agree! When I remember all the adventures I've been on in the past, it's not the gear or conditions I remember, but the views, places, people, and sense of achievement that I took from the trip! That said, we just want to be smart about this trip and do as much preparation as we reasonably can. This may be a once in a life time chance for my wife and I and we'd hate to see something preventable pull us off the trail early. My worst fear is calling up my work and asking them to put me back on the schedule early!!!

[rastayogi]

New Balance MT110 is an amazing shoe. It is a minimilist trail running shoe, but has a rock plate. I have logged well over 200 miles in mine with little sign of ware. Anton Krupicka an ultra distance runner uses them and get well over 500 miles on them with no breakdown of the uppers.

[garlic08]

I'll throw in a pearl of clothing wisdom I first heard on this forum: You should be able to wear all your clothing at the same time.

When you shop for sleeping bags, try to find EN ratings and don't necessarily believe manufacturer's claims. Look at Marmot for high quality bags that might be priced just a little lower than Western Mountaineering. Campmor typically has good prices. Steepandcheap.com has great deals sometimes if you can be patient.

For general advice in going light, in addition to the books and sites noted above, consider this video: http://lwgear.com/lightweight-backpacking.html

I think you'll be extremely lucky if you find the right shoes the first time, but best of luck.

[Connie]

Clymb! can have incredible bargain prices on great gear, as well.