REI rant.

[flatfeet]

Does anyone else not like REI? It seems all there products are too heavy/bulky. And the options for thru hiking sorely lacking.

Not only that but they continue to promote this outdated mode of backpacking- 5lb backpacks, full size 2 inch thick sleeping pads, leather boots, 3lb one man tents.

It's obvious that more and more people are going lightweight/or ultra lightweight. And yet REI carries almost no lightweight gear. There lightest backpack is almost 3 lbs. They have no alcohol stoves. No backpacking pots. No quilts.

I like their return policy. But they have almost no gear I would even consider buying. So the return policy doesn't really apply. I would buy socks there. But that is about it.

Would it be so difficult to hire some designers to promote a new UL line? Or is it that UL just doesn't sell and people want the 5lb external frame backpack with all useless bells and whistles?

-I realize UL isn't for everyone. But in this day and age there in absolutely no reason why anyone would need, and i stress need a 30+ pound backpack.-

[Firefighter503]

I disagree. Most of their packs fall in line with the current 'backpacking model.' They are also much lighter than the packs of past generations. Plenty of people thru hike just fine in REI branded/sold gear.

I own a Vargo alcohol stove, and an REI TiWare pot, both from REI. Both lightweight.

Like it or not, UL has not become mainstream yet. Generally speaking, people going into the woods tend to overpack at first, hence the need for larger/heavier packs. Until people are educated differently from the start, that ain't going to change. Even after being educated, people will carry extras based on what they are comfortable with.

This from a reformed (read: formerly traditional with 40 lbs of ****) backpacker with a 9 lb base weight.

[Velvet Gooch]

It's been decades since REI's primary focus was on equipment for serious climbers, backpackers and mountaineering expeditions.

people want the 5lb external frame backpack with all useless bells and whistles?

I'll never give up my Dana Design/K2 Terraframe. I purchased four of them back in the day: one for backpacking, one for hunting and two spares. Ever

[Bags4266]

I agree, there stores are nice to look around but I hardly ever buy.

[KYLarry]

I have been buying from REI for years, and plan on continuing to do so. Perhaps REI has not adopted the UL model, but they certainly have plenty of other gear besides packs to choose from. I would venture to guess that thru-hikers don't represent the vast majority of those that enjoy backpacking and even camping in general. I have been backpacking for close to 20 yrs and will probably never thru-hike, but if I did decide to do so I would probably go for a pack made by one of the cottage industry gear makers like ULA. Besides that, REI-branded clothing and other gear are made well and the return policy is second to none.

It certainly doesn't bother me that that you are not an REI fan, as I have no dog in that fight, but I think that they do a solid job of providing great gear to a very large audience of outdoor enthusiasts.

[peakbagger]

REI and other mainstream stores are handicapped by expectation that equipment bought is guaranteed for life no matter what the purchaser does with it. They also have to buy gear at a steep discount to retail in order to cover overhead (including the lifetime guarantee). Much of the ultralight gear is built to minimize weight and that means going with less durable materials that will take less abuse. A typical ultralight buyer will realize the trade off between weight and durability, but a mainstream buyer will not necessarilly, leading to a lot of claims for replacements or oney back. This costs them money. A small ultraight firm can sell direct to the public so they can cover their higher costs of manufacture, if they had to sell at a markup to REI or another high end retailer, the utilmate price would be far higher and this would discourage sales.

[Rocket Jones]

REI makes it's money from the weekend warriors, not from thru hikers. Catering to the dedicated long distance hiker is a good way to go out of business. That said, it's perfectly reasonable to buy every piece of gear from REI and successfully complete a thru hike. Maybe not the most comfortable way to go, but certainly doable.

[Rif]

Well after standing in a line halfway around the local REI to checkout last Friday evening, the first night of the sale I would say they have plenty of what the average person wants.

Most of the true UL stuff is made by small cottage industries that typically sell directly. There are a few exceptions that do wholesale but most mainstream selelrs, REI and EMS cater to the masses. In most cases REI stuff is priced right, has a great return policy and when on sale is an even better bargain.

Most everything I own other than my Gossamer Gear pack came from either REI or Backcountry and bought at a huge sale discount.

Rif

[Nutbrown]

I'll disagree also. REI does well what it does. Maybe they don't have a lot of ul, but what they have is quality brands they stand behind. Clothing outfitters and geer outfitters are for the outdoorsy type, not for thru hikers.

[Mrs Baggins]

My REI Flash backpack weighs just over 2 lbs. I have their Ti Ware coffee cup and .9 ltr cookpot, both featherweight. Pocket Rocket stove purchased there - 3 oz. Thermarest Neoair mat bought there - 8 oz. REI Subkilo down sleeping bag - the name says it all, less than 2 lbs. All of that is light enough for me and apparently for many others since it all sells so well. I'll take some comforts over trying to get pack weight down to way under 20 lbs. I can deal with the pack weight but not sleeping on a sheet of tyvek in a gossamer thin bivy.

[Don H]

The guys at my store are fairly knowledgable.
Many of the sales staff that work at my local REI are thru-hikers.
They have lots of stuff thru-hikers use.

I bought several items from them that I used.
Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone pack
MSR Pocket Rocket stove
Platypus water bladders
Thermarest NeoAir sleeping pad

They also have good variety of shoes, insoles and socks.

They don't carry a UL tent that I would want for a thru, maybe because these are likely to be damaged easily.

[plurpimpin]

REI has a fair selection of UL stuff, just not in the store, you have to order online but then you can return in the store. I bought a Granite Gear Crown VC 60 from REI's website and then returned it in the store because it did not fit right. My local REI also stocks TI pots, titanium Vargo alcohol stoves, and ultralite pads like expeds and neo airs. Alot of gear you've requested is very specialized so it's not really a surprise that REI doesn't carry it. I mean I could count on one hand how many companies make quilts and UL packs.

The other thing to keep in mind with UL backpacking is that you have to know what you're doing. It's very different skill set from traditional backpacking. It's all about getting by with less and if you lack the knowledge to do so you could end up in alot of trouble. I actually had a lengthy discussion about this with an REI employee last week when I was there getting a set up superfeet for my trail runners. He admitted that he doesn't even own boots anymore. He said the problem is you can't give joe public that comes in for hiking boots a pair of trail runners unless they have the appropriate conditioning and lightweight kit to go along with it. They'll end up going out and hurting themselves. Alot of people don't understand that getting by with less can actually make their experience more pleasant by reducing their pack weight.

[plurpimpin]

Oh and I forgot to add, if you have such a problem with REI go shop somewhere else. You don't see anyone coming on here and complaining that Dick's sporting goods or Walmart don't have a good selection of UL gear, we all know it's not their market so we shop at other stores.

[Don H]

Dick's Sporting Goods has those little rolls of ultra light toilet paper that I like.

[Tinker]

REI guarantees everything that they sell, no questions asked (unless you are known as a habitual abuser of their liberal return policy).
They really cannot afford to carry anything that is less than reasonably durable. Ultralight gear tends to be more fragile (and expensive) than mainstream hiking gear.
Specializing in fragile, expensive gear is not the best way to make (and keep) money.

You can find plenty of light, durable gear at REI. It just won't be cutting edge. That segment of the market will be satisfied by gearheads in small quantities in garages and barns (until they realize that they can't make production demands - then it may be made overseas).

[garlic08]

I don't buy candy, so I don't go to the candy store. But I have nothing against the candy store, its owner, or the people who go there. So I don't care if REI (stands for "Return Every Item") doesn't sell stuff I don't use anymore. I just don't go there.

I understand some of your frustration, though. They do seem to have changed over the years. I was displeased when my local store in CO stopped carrying a good stock of X-C ski wax in order to display more children's Patagucci fleece booties or whatever. But hey, my fellow shoppers were way more interested in buying booties and spent more in one visit than I ever did in many seasons of ski wax, so it made business sense. Coop members want that dividend.

[jakedatc]

Osprey Exos series backpacks, REI and Snowpeak Ti pots, Pocket rocket stove, Patagonia and marmot 800 fill puffys, icebreaker and patagonia merino baselayers, REI subkilo bag, BA air core and TR neoair air pads,


ever think that some placed don't SELL their stuff TO REI ?

[DavidNH]

I disagree as well. There's nothing unreasonable about REI. Frankly, I think you are being a bit of an ultralight snob.
My backpack weighs 5 lbs empty. I thru hiked the AT in 06 carrying loads ranging from 30 lbs to 55 pounds fully loaded. Some of us don't want to go into down every few days to re stock.

I would suspect that the true ultra light folks are in a very small minority among the general hiking public.

davidnh

[Cuffs]

I shop REI like I shop for other things in life. I get what I need from them and get other things at other stores. I've never seen any one outfitter have everything I need. Just as one department store will not have an entire outfit. One grocery store will not have every ingredient for a recipe.

Get what you need. Get out. Move on. Quit complaining.

[Stink Bug]

Somebody made a gear list a year or so ago to show you can get decent, UL gear from REI...http://lytw8.com/uploads/REI_Ultra_Light_Gear_List.pdf

Admittedly some of the gear is a little out of date, but it's still more than capable. As others have said, if you don't like REI, don't shop there; I'm sure Six Moon Designs, Gossamer Gear, ZPacks, Trail Designs, Katabatic Gear etc will be more than happy to take your money.