The 'Thru-Hiker Permit'...

[Cookerhiker]

You do have a point there. Hmmm.... Why does Uncle Sam always have to ruin everything?

If not for Uncle Sam, the AT wouldn't exist - at least nowhere near its present form. There would be extensive road walks.

The federal legislation 1968 and 1978 authorizing and establishing the National Scenic Trails more than anything else ensured that the AT would really be a footpath in the woods - not exactly the MacKaye vision of "wilderness" but something better than concrete.

[Saprogenic]

When I hiked SOBO in '04, I was able to get a Smokies permit from the Forest Service office in Hot Springs. Apparently that option no longer exists but according to the Companion, you can obtain your permit from Bluff Mountain Outfitters which is on the main street. Unfortunately, the Companion gives the outfitter's hours as "Sa-Su" implying that they're closed on weekdays. I checked their FB page where it states that they're open 7 days a week.

This is not atypical; permits (involving fees) in the Red River Gorge of Daniel Boone National Forest are available at local outfitters & stores.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, these stores and oufitters aren't exactly on the trail are they? So you'd have to leave the trail and head into town to get the permit? I understand the trail runs through a town sometimes, but I'm sure they're not all located like that, or are they. Still seems to me like it is inevitable that you will have to leave the bush and go into town to get a permit allowing you to continue, right?

[Rasty]

Sounds like a great idea to have a permit forthru-hikers?

The permits would be issued by the federal government. They would immediatelydo a study and determine that the trail is over used and only issue a limitednumber of permits just like what happens on many rivers. So you would need tofill out your lottery request form up to ten years in advance or sign up withan outfitter who has an available permit for a substantial fee. Want tothru-hike when you are 18 then fill out your request form for a specific startdate when you are an 8 year old. Just look at the restrictions and lotterysystem used for the Colorado River to see what it would turn into.

You do have a point there. Hmmm.... Why does Uncle Sam always have to ruin everything?

They do it because someone lobbies them to pick winners and losers. In the case of River access it was commercial outfitters so they could charge $2000+ per person for a five day Salmon River trip with 6 passengers in each boat. If they didn't have the almost exclusive use of the river the same trip would be a lot less cost.

[Cookerhiker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, these stores and oufitters aren't exactly on the trail are they? So you'd have to leave the trail and head into town to get the permit? I understand the trail runs through a town sometimes, but I'm sure they're not all located like that, or are they. Still seems to me like it is inevitable that you will have to leave the bush and go into town to get a permit allowing you to continue, right?

The AT proceeds right through the business district of Hot Springs. Hot Springs is the southernmost town where the trail is actually downtown. Other examples include Damascus, Duncannon, Hanover. There was a recent thread on this very subject.

[WIAPilot]

I guess it may be one of those, " it seemed like a good idea at the time" moments...
Forgot to consider the constrictive gov.

Good points and bad points to it. At least you made us all think of the ramifications of it and that is what is important.

[Wil]

They do it because someone lobbies them to pick winners and losers

The world is run by those who show up. Lobbyists show up; we don't. The public complains about special interests but special interests are part of freedom. We have that same freedom, we just choose not to show up.

[Rasty]

The world is run by those who show up. Lobbyists show up; we don't. The public complains about special interests but special interests are part of freedom. We have that same freedom, we just choose not to show up.

I agree with you on that.

[Wil]

It's not that simple.

I never said it was simple. I actually applaud you to the extent that you saw a problem and made an effort. Unfortunately, it _isn't_ that simple. You need to see the problem _clearly_. You need to accurately analyze and define the problem. You need to do some homework. You need to encourage a process that has some prospect of effectively addressing the problem.

[Cookerhiker]

Saprogenic, by your own admission you feel overwhelmed with the sense that thruhiking the AT is fraught with heavy-handed government-imposed burdens and fees. Please relax a bit - it really isn't that bad, scores of hikers start and finish thruhikes every year. Instead of trepidations, think with joyful anticipation of the rewards of your SOBO hike. Maine is a beautiful state with its evergreens, lakes, moose, loons, views, and lots more. The Whites in NH are stunning. As a SOBOer, you'll experience a full range of Fall colors further south that NOBOs miss. You should have a great time.

Think positive and have a great hike!

[Saprogenic]

I admit it was looking a bit ridiculous, needing to constantly stop and go off trail for permits allowing you to continue.

[Saprogenic]

Either way I can't wait. I was supposed to go last year but work got real busy and couldn't break away. Only 2 more months till I'm in Baxter SP!

[canoe]

Keep govmt out of this. Simple solution if a central permit is needed. No brainer...let the ATC handle em.

[Pedaling Fool]

I see more and more state/parks are restricting and regulating the forest these days. Needing a series of permits, paying fees just to enjoy the little woods we have left. For thru-hikers, the last thing you want to have to worry about is whether or not you currently need a permit or risks fines. I say, lets get a request going. Let's get all of these parks together, and get a 'Thru-Hiker's Permit' going. One piece of paper you purchase at either end or online, that's allows you permission to camp along the entire trail. One permit, allowing you to free your mind from fines/rangers. They can still have their sign-in's just for safety's sake, but the walking miles out of the way, to pay someone for a piece of paper saying your allowed to camp now is ridiculous when you think about it. Let's get a single permit going for thru-hikers. Who's with me?!

You're asking for the National Park Service to establish a thru-hiker permit for the entire length of the AT Now that is funny on so many levels

Just be happy you're not doing your thru next year, because that's when you'll have to pay and set resvervations for GSMNP. As it is now, it's a piece of cake to walk thru.

[Saprogenic]

You're asking for the National Park Service to establish a thru-hiker permit for the entire length of the AT Now that is funny on so many levels

Just be happy you're not doing your thru next year, because that's when you'll have to pay and set resvervations for GSMNP. As it is now, it's a piece of cake to walk thru.

How about, **** you.

[Pedaling Fool]

How about, **** you.

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you, what was that ...


You sound like a young guy who doesn't understand bureaucracies, of which the NPS is a very large one and manages many parks and such. The AT is such a small part of what they do and Thru-hikers, many of which don't actually become thru-hikers, i.e. the majority which start end up quitting, which means it's a very small minority of park-goers; so they really are not on their radar. Besides, the overwhelming number of parks don't require a permit, only SNP and GSMNP.

[Rasty]

How about, **** you.

Fill in the blank game!!!!

1) Love
2) Feel
3) Go Gault
4) Please teach me
5)

How about, **** you.

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you, what was that ...


You sound like a young guy who doesn't understand bureaucracies, of which the NPS is a very large one and manages many parks and such. The AT is such a small part of what they do and Thru-hikers, many of which don't actually become thru-hikers, i.e. the majority which start end up quitting, which means it's a very small minority of park-goers; so they really are not on their radar. Besides, the overwhelming number of parks don't require a permit, only SNP and GSMNP.

[Suzy Boudreau Allman]

I don't think this would be the case. The idea of a lottery request for up to ten years in advance is sort of absurd for a trail like the AT. The most popular multi-day trek in the country -- the John Muir Trail in CA -- has a lottery system where you register only 24 weeks in advance, and this is only for a permit leaving from the most popular trailheads in the Yosemite Valley. The AT will never be that. But the Pacific Crest Trail has something which the original poster is suggesting: a permit that covers you from entrance to exit.

While you might complain about a permit system, the intent is to protect the wilderness quality and feeling of solitude on the trail -- something that John Muir Trail hikers subscribe to, as the trail becomes more popular with each passing year.

But let's compare the AT to a long thru-hike, and not a river in the bottom of the Grand Canyon.

Sounds like a great idea to have a permit forthru-hikers?

The permits would be issued by the federal government. They would immediatelydo a study and determine that the trail is over used and only issue a limitednumber of permits just like what happens on many rivers. So you would need tofill out your lottery request form up to ten years in advance or sign up withan outfitter who has an available permit for a substantial fee. Want tothru-hike when you are 18 then fill out your request form for a specific startdate when you are an 8 year old. Just look at the restrictions and lotterysystem used for the Colorado River to see what it would turn into.

[Grampie]

Let's not get carryed away with this "permit" issue. Their are no required permits to hike the AT. some areas request you to register before you thavel through. The reason is that if you are reported missing or someone is trying to contact you it may help those looking to know where you are. This service is free to thru-hikers. Some places charge a fee to use a shelter or camp site. Just don't use these areas. You can walk the whole 2160 miles of the AT and it costs nothing to walk or camp along the way. Any kind of thru-hiker permit would not be free.

[Sarcasm the elf]

ZombieThread.jpg

..........

[rocketsocks]

Oh yeah, I remember this one....it's where the Roadrunner hands the Coyote an acme rocket, and he flashes the Smokies in one move all stealth like and un-permitted, then does a fly-by on the Rangers tower while breaking sound barrier.