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  1. #1

    Default Guns - Are they needed for protection from bears in WV?

    Complete noob to hiking and trails in the US of A having moved here with my VA born and bred wife. Neither of us are gun toting, and therefore have no experience of when you need a gun or not.

    In the UK and Europe the most dangerous thing is traffic, and you can wilderness hike anywhere without fear of being eaten or mauled.

    We will be in WV and plan some day hikes in Dolly Sods and other areas, and so the question is:

    Should we carry a gun for protection against bears and other predators? I have read only a rifle is effective anyway, and then you'd be lucky to get off two rounds. It seems also in WV that a rifle would have to be cased and unloaded, which sort of defeats the object if a bear is bearing down on us (pun intended).

    Any firearms would be bought and licensed in Virginia in respect of reciprocal licensing laws.

    Thanks for any serious and constructive advice.

  2. #2
    Registered User scree's Avatar
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    No.

    Unless you are in Grizzly country (e.g., Alaska) there isn't much point carrying a gun for protection against bears. It would be incredibly hard to justify shooting a black bear in self defense in a national park as that situation is usually avoidable through other means. Most handguns light enough to carry would be ineffective without multiple well-placed shots anyway. If you feel the need for something to grab on to, get bear spray, but even that would be overkill for most situations on the East coast. You should be more considered about feral pigs than black bear, especially in the South, as they are far more likely to persist in a real attack. I personally would never consider drawing on a black bear except under extraordinarily strange and unusual circumstances.

    For reference, I'm definitely not anti-gun, but I don't think what you're talking about is a good idea at all. I'm a life member of both the NRA and GOA with competitive rifle and defensive handgun experience, and possess multi-state concealed handgun permits. I carry where it's legal but not for protection against wildlife - You're far more likely (and still very unlikely) to get into a situation where deadly force is appropriate when dealing human threats. Until you're aware of and comfortable with the legal and moral issues surrounding the possibility of taking another human's life in self-defense, do not consider carrying a firearm for protection. I would, however, encourage you to take a firearms safety course before further considering gun ownership - you'd find the course very informative and the instructor would be able to answer a lot of your questions about appropriate use and the law when dealing with wildlife. http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx

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    Quote Originally Posted by scree View Post
    Unless you are in Grizzly country (e.g., Alaska) there isn't much point carrying a gun for protection against bears.
    Not that it matters much for the AT, and not to be contrary on purpose ... but I live & hike in grizzly & black bear country (BC), and there's no reason for guns for grizzlies either. Bear spray & bear smarts (knowing the difference b/t grizzlies & black bears, and how to react to both) is all that is needed.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCPete View Post
    Not that it matters much for the AT, and not to be contrary on purpose ... but I live & hike in grizzly & black bear country (BC), and there's no reason for guns for grizzlies either. Bear spray & bear smarts (knowing the difference b/t grizzlies & black bears, and how to react to both) is all that is needed.
    So apart from learning how to be Bear Grylls (I'm a Brit) from reading forum posts, is there somewhere you can go to learn about dealing with wildlife when hiking? A sort of idiots night course, or do the park rangers organize anything, or perhaps I should use the hooking up feature on this board to hike with some more experienced folk until I'm ready for the Navy Seals

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    Quote Originally Posted by nodric View Post
    So apart from learning how to be Bear Grylls (I'm a Brit) from reading forum posts, is there somewhere you can go to learn about dealing with wildlife when hiking? A sort of idiots night course, or do the park rangers organize anything, or perhaps I should use the hooking up feature on this board to hike with some more experienced folk until I'm ready for the Navy Seals
    theres plenty
    Of info right here if you search the forums.nothing to be afraid of,just to be understood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nodric View Post
    So apart from learning how to be Bear Grylls (I'm a Brit) from reading forum posts, is there somewhere you can go to learn about dealing with wildlife when hiking?
    Don't harass wildlife and wildlife won't harass you, except for mice (which will eat your food), mosquitoes and ticks (which will suck your blood), and gnats (which will suck your eyeball juice!), and squirrels, raccoons, and maybe skunks (which might try to get your food). Use Permethrin on your clothing and gear and DEET on yourself (the latter only as needed), and hang your food.

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  7. #7
    Registered User scree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nodric View Post
    So apart from learning how to be Bear Grylls (I'm a Brit) from reading forum posts, is there somewhere you can go to learn about dealing with wildlife when hiking? A sort of idiots night course, or do the park rangers organize anything, or perhaps I should use the hooking up feature on this board to hike with some more experienced folk until I'm ready for the Navy Seals
    Honestly, in all the years I've been hiking I haven't found that wildlife presents much of a problem, aside from the mice/ticks/etc as mentioned earlier. It's good to learn about the wildlife, including dangerous wildlife, but I wouldn't let a lack of knowledge deter you from enjoying the great outdoors. Bears are beautiful, and oddly enough I feel like I didn't truly understand the mountains until I saw how gracefully a bear traverses the terrain - they're made to be there, they're perfectly suited to be there, and to love the mountains you can't hate or fear the bear. As a rule, whenever I encounter wildlife I use a friendly, conversational tone and just say hi - "Hi bear!" "Hi squirrell!" etc. For one thing vocalizing calmly keeps you calm, for another it's kinda funny to see how they react, and finally it let's them know you're around so they can vacate the scene.

    To directly answer your question, I can almost guarantee that parks will have formal or informal talks about the local wildlife and safety at most parks.

    You're a lot more likely to get bit by a tick, stung by a bee, and get rained on as others have said.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by scree View Post
    No.

    Unless you are in Grizzly country (e.g., Alaska) there isn't much point carrying a gun for protection against bears. It would be incredibly hard to justify shooting a black bear in self defense in a national park as that situation is usually avoidable through other means. Most handguns light enough to carry would be ineffective without multiple well-placed shots anyway. If you feel the need for something to grab on to, get bear spray, but even that would be overkill for most situations on the East coast. You should be more considered about feral pigs than black bear, especially in the South, as they are far more likely to persist in a real attack. I personally would never consider drawing on a black bear except under extraordinarily strange and unusual circumstances.

    For reference, I'm definitely not anti-gun, but I don't think what you're talking about is a good idea at all. I'm a life member of both the NRA and GOA with competitive rifle and defensive handgun experience, and possess multi-state concealed handgun permits. I carry where it's legal but not for protection against wildlife - You're far more likely (and still very unlikely) to get into a situation where deadly force is appropriate when dealing human threats. Until you're aware of and comfortable with the legal and moral issues surrounding the possibility of taking another human's life in self-defense, do not consider carrying a firearm for protection. I would, however, encourage you to take a firearms safety course before further considering gun ownership - you'd find the course very informative and the instructor would be able to answer a lot of your questions about appropriate use and the law when dealing with wildlife. http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx
    Wise and sagely advice. Thank you for the link, which I will check out.

    We live in a quiet town, and one that is not known for gun crazed loonies, but we plan on moving back to the bigger metropolises in time, so having some home protection is attractive.

    I assume the best defense against a bear is to give it room as the other poster said, and make lots of noise so it knows we are there? My wife has an amazing set of lungs, and on our last mini hike she scared a 7 foot black snake away with them, and terrified the crap out of me

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nodric View Post
    My wife has an amazing set of lungs
    I am happy for you.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nodric View Post
    Wise and sagely advice. Thank you for the link, which I will check out.

    We live in a quiet town, and one that is not known for gun crazed loonies, but we plan on moving back to the bigger metropolises in time, so having some home protection is attractive.

    I assume the best defense against a bear is to give it room as the other poster said, and make lots of noise so it knows we are there? My wife has an amazing set of lungs, and on our last mini hike she scared a 7 foot black snake away with them, and terrified the crap out of me
    With regards to your concern about black bears, I would recommend you take some time and read through the North American Bear Center's website, it will clear up a lot of the common fears and misconceptions regarding Black bears.

    http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/why-we-fear-bears.html

    Personally, the only wild animals I fear while hiking are deer ticks.
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  11. #11

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    Of course you'll need a firearm. Nothing less than a long gun chambered for .950 JDJ will do though

  12. #12

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    Don't worry about the bears if you give them space they will leave you alone, The most dangerous thing on the A.T is other Humans. But no man Don't carry guns on the trail then the dangerous level goes way up.

  13. #13
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    Guy walks into a gun shop and asks the owner "I'm planning on hiking the Appalachian Trail, what handgun would you suggest I carry?".

    The gun shop owner says "Get any handgun you want but whatever you do be sure to grind down the front sight"

    "Why's that?" asks the guy.

    "Because that way, when the bear takes it away from you and shoves it up your arse it won't hurt as bad" said the gun shop owner.

    ___________

    The short answer is no.
    Last edited by Spokes; 05-29-2012 at 18:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RED-DOG View Post
    Don't carry guns on the trail then the dangerous level goes way up.
    In what way? I have yet to see someone shoot their own or anyone else's foot off. I guess you could drop it on your foot and break a toe or something.

    You are right however about the bears. Bears are not a reason to carry a gun in the east.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

  15. #15

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    Don't be too concerned about the feral pigs either. Unless you have a dog, boar attacks are basically unheard of. However, heart attacks from hearing them threaten could be an issue.

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    You don't need a rifle for bears in Virginia.

    You need one for the Mountain Lions.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by WingedMonkey View Post
    You don't need a rifle for bears in Virginia.

    You need one for the Mountain Lions.
    Now even I know they're a thing of myth and legend :P

  18. #18
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    Granny, in the Beverly Hillbillies, carried a riffle..... Fer gettin' vittles fer dinner.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WingedMonkey View Post
    You don't need a rifle for bears in Virginia.

    You need one for the Mountain Lions.
    If for no other reason so you can shoot it and prove it was actually a mountain lion and not a bobcat

    (That was a joke people)

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    Quote Originally Posted by nodric View Post
    So apart from learning how to be Bear Grylls (I'm a Brit) from reading forum posts, is there somewhere you can go to learn about dealing with wildlife when hiking? A sort of idiots night course, or do the park rangers organize anything, or perhaps I should use the hooking up feature on this board to hike with some more experienced folk until I'm ready for the Navy Seals
    Don't play with the snakes and don't feed the mice. For the rest of the critters, just watch them and enjoy.

    On a serious note, for bears all you need to do is give them space, don't run from them. If you get too close back away slowly and as a last resort make yourself look big and make a lot of noise.

    Go hike and have fun.

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