Latest Altercation with "Joe to Go"

[Rain Man]

What a lot of hikers don't realize is that they are not always welcome. ...

I sure as heck agree, but it seems according to some in this thread, no one is allowed to report truthful negative experiences. (I don't agree with that at all, just to be clear.)

I say, be it hikers or a business, REPORT exceptional or lousy instances that one observes first-hand, ... but be extremely cautious about spreading hearsay about anyone.

Rain Man

P.S. I'm not slamming the OP, lest anyone misconstrue.

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[MyName1sMud]

He won't be getting my business.

EDIT*** When people talk trash about someone.... 9 times out of 10 there is a reason.

I'm going to avoid him so I don't have to have a reason.

[MyName1sMud]

When I stopped by Joe's with a few others in '08, we were forwarned. Therefore, we followed the rules - left the packs outside on the hiker bench next to the building, bought a sandwich and drink and had no trouble. It was like the "Soup Nazi" episode on Sinfeld. I don't care how rude the guy can be, any place right on the trail that I can buy food at, I'm there

BTW, a couple of guys went down the street a little ways and found a bar open (this was maybe 10 AM on a Sunday!). They got thier water bottles filled there with no hassels. I guess after they spent a few hours drinking on a Sunday morning, the bar tender figured what the heck.

Drinking on a Sunday morning?????

SUNDAY FUNDAY!!!!!!!!!!

[Cookerhiker]

I remember when I was thru-hiking the PCT through the high sierra. Several people had bashed Vermillion Valley Resort (VVR) online talking about bad service, bad food, anti-hiker, etc. And yet, I had a great time there, as did most hikers I talked to. A couple of bad journal posts isn't enough for everyone to conclude a place should be avoided like the plague. I'll stop by in a few months on my AT SOBO hike and let you know what I find in my online journal.

The only complaints I heard about VVR - and they were few - was from cheapskate hikers who expected prices like Motel 6, McD's, and WalMart. I had a postive experience there and will hit it again this year.

[Monkeywrench]

Deli.jpg

Stopped there one morning on my '09 thru-hike. As you can see from the photo, there were a bunch of us there. Bought a sandwich and a drink, and hung out outside for a while enjoying them. The proprietor did ask us not to sit on the parking curbs in front of the store but to use the bench on the side. Can't say he was overly friendly, but he sold me what I asked for so have no complaints myself.

I can imagine it could be annoying to his regular customers to stop in during thru-hiker season and have to wait for a dozen hikers to be waited on first. I can further imagine it can sour the proprietor's attitude to have his regular bread-and-butter customers get annoyed, rightly or wrongly.

I'm not saying this invalidates anybody else's experience there, just sharing my own.

[Pedaling Fool]

I've never been to this place, so can't say one thing or the other. But I got two observations that probably fit here: 1. There's somewhat of a mob-mentality when people get together and start talking about an establishment that they dislike and along with that stories can get a little overblown. 2. I've seen thru-hikers come into establishments before being noisy and such as if they're trying to gain attention from everyone there. And they can get really loud talking about "trail stories", as if they want the entire place to hear their "great adventures". Throw in with that some entitlement attitude and I can see how some who are subjected to this on a regular basis can grow sick of thru-hikers.

[WIAPilot]

I've never been to this place, so can't say one thing or the other. But I got two observations that probably fit here: 1. There's somewhat of a mob-mentality when people get together and start talking about an establishment that they dislike and along with that stories can get a little overblown. 2. I've seen thru-hikers come into establishments before being noisy and such as if they're trying to gain attention from everyone there. And they can get really loud talking about "trail stories", as if they want the entire place to hear their "great adventures". Throw in with that some entitlement attitude and I can see how some who are subjected to this on a regular basis can grow sick of thru-hikers.

This is what we were hearing and thinking in the first post. Many were giving this guy the benefit of a doubt and LOL let's just say that the discussion became quite lively. And then I came across Ball's journal where this incident just occurred. Now I know Eric (Balls). Not real well, but enough to know that he isn't going to exaggerate or make this stuff up. Fact: A little 12-yr old paying customer was denied access to the restroom. And according to Balls, the locals have said that there have been numerous altercations with customers there. The guy threw Eric and Sunshine out! I am not trying to be malicious or gossipy, but I think thru hikers have the right to know these things and then make their own judgment as to whether they want to eat there or not.

[TD55]

I've got to agree with MuddyWaters ... and not with TD55's absurd hyperbole. Reporting a bad experience does not "destroy a person's business." It would take a lot of those. And generating a lot of reports of bad experience would be the person destroying his own business.

Don't blame the victims.

Rain Man

P.S. I am talking about people reporting THEIR OWN experiences, and not posting on review sites such stuff as rumors and gossip and hearsay.

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I agree. I respect your opinions and post, as I respect those of Wise Old Owl. I admire the way some posters can make their point with only a little bit of words. Me, I have difficulty with that. Use to many words and don't make my point. Eric Burden singing "Lord, Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood" comes to mind. The hyperbole was just a way to change the tone and direction from bashing to examination. Peace.

[atmilkman]

It's too bad the guy doesn't have the ability to install a take-out window somewhere around the back of his place with maybe a table or two and that way he could direct the thru-hikers there and keep them seperated from his regulars, even if it was seasonal only.

[WIAPilot]

I agree. I respect your opinions and post, as I respect those of Wise Old Owl. I admire the way some posters can make their point with only a little bit of words. Me, I have difficulty with that. Use to many words and don't make my point. Eric Burden singing "Lord, Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood" comes to mind. The hyperbole was just a way to change the tone and direction from bashing to examination. Peace.

LOL Listen, I write volumes!! And I'm sure my intent is not understood many ​times.

[10-K]

I suspect that the only replies most people read completely are the ones they write.

And people love to bitch and complain on the internet. My suggestion is to turn off the computer and go hiking.

[Lone Wolf]

once again, "thru-hikers" don't need to be warned about this place. thru-hikers need to learn manners and respect

[Hellush]

If you don't like it, don't go. Beyond that who cares?

[RockDoc]

I think that some perspective is in order...

I think that running a lodge or other service for AT hikers, especially thru hikers, is a highly demanding and wearing proposition. Especially now that there are thousands of thru hikers every year, all dirty, all hungry, all wanting to take a free "shower" in your bathroom sink and then leaving a big puddle for you to clean up.

Note that several of the more famous hiker lodges have either closed temporarily or permanently, I think of Bear at the Cabin in Maine. He put out a lot of energy for his clients, and I think it exhausted him sometimes. And the original Shaws in Monson got enough of it after a while. Last I heard (the younger) Mr Shaw didn't want anything to do with hikers. We are not talking about young people running these lodges. Often they are past retirement age.

Not that "Joe" deserves a pass for his reportedly unfriendly behavior, but I think that thru hiking has passed a threshold on the AT. Sort of like when trekking in Nepal got real popular in the 1970's. Past a certain point the locals were no longer as friendly and welcoming to the umpthousandth foreigner that walked by their door that week. Eventually it becomes an annoyance and that lodge owner needs to do something else for a while.

I see the same symptoms in certain public school teachers who have taught for too many years. They can become impatient, callus and cruel. From their point of view they think "I've been teaching you this all these years and you still don't get it!". The AT lodge owner may have a similar thought process going on, just under the surface.

Just musing a bit since in my opinion the AT is highly overpopulated and it's no surprise that this should stress the service industry people.
On my last hike in VA I was passed by 80 thru hikers in one day... too many. Way too many....

[WIAPilot]

once again, "thru-hikers" don't need to be warned about this place. thru-hikers need to learn manners and respect

LW-It is not always the hikers who are wrong. I am generally inclined to agree with you about the manners of hikers and I think that most of them make it difficult for the rest of us. But how many complaints do you need before you are willing to concede that this guy just might be a jerk? Whatever. It is totally each individual hiker's decision, but I personally want​ to know about guys like this so that I can make up my own mind.

[TD55]

The guy is a sandwich maker. He makes a good sandwich. Think about how silly this whole thread has been. We are demanding that the sandwich maker ON THE TRAIL be polite, let us use his restroom and be a nice person. His attitude seems to be that the only thing anyone should ask of him is that he make a good sandwich. It is what it is.

[brooklynkayak]

I remember stopping by "Joe to Go" while on an early winter hike. There weren't any thru hikers around.
I didn't know about any reputation, but did catch a vibe about the place. All the signs and the fact that he focused on the backpacks like we were one of "them".
He didn't give us any problems, but we could see he didn't like our type.

Although there was no free water, coffee was free with a sandwich?

So like why did he open his place right off of the AT?

I suspect he is a "troll" as they say in the Internet world. Someone who lives for confrontation.
Think of the "Soup Nazi" from Sinefeld. You act the way he wants, and there will be no problem. You break the rules and you have fed the troll. The more you feed the troll, the more confrontation he wants.

Best to hitch further down the road to another place for food and let his business shrivel up and shut down.

Oh, and by the way, I don't think businesses in NJ are required to have public restrooms like in other states. So not having a public bathroom is another way to create confrontation for him.

[verasch]

I think my interest in knowing what places out there have good service is based on where I want my money to go. I don't know about any of you, but saving up thousands of dollars plus making sure the cost of maintaining my home while I'm away is going to be very hard for me. I have a right to put my money where I want to use it, and I'd rather use it knowing that the place is worth supporting.

[brooklynkayak]

Oh and by the way, I posted a somewhat negative post about the place, but wanted to post a positive. He does serve a mean Taylor Ham sandwich. That is actually a pretty good reason to go there. If you have never had a Taylor Ham sandwich, you are missing out on one of the best trail town foods ever made!

[Wise Old Owl]

OK here is a wide open question, most "deli's" have all the product and material behind the counter except the chips... Why do owners brandish us with backpacks must be outside? What really is wrong with walking in with them.... I must be missing something here....