I may have asked this some time ago, but will ask again..............

[Different Socks]

Is there anyone that visits this forum that is not a 'light is right" hiker? I agree that as I get older I wish to lighten my pack, but I am not one of those, "I have my base weight down to so few pounds, can you do less?"
But there are some things that I just won't do without when I am day hiking, weekend hiking, or multi-day(week) hiking. Am I wrong in seeing that the attitude these days is that once the ultra-lite hiker sees you carrying what they consider to be too much or unnecessary things, that they look at you or tell you that you are doing something wrong, even if you don't complain about any part of what you are carrying?

[fiddlehead]

Depending no the season, I don't like to go out without rainpants.
Yet still consider myself liteweight.

I look at it like this: I don't take extra stuff that I don't need/use. (except my guitar and even then, I don't take extra strings)
But, if ever, in my travels, I find something that is lighter weight than what I am now carrying, I will buy it and replace said gear.
I now have the lightest weight spoon I have ever seen as well as toothbrush, guy lines for my tarp/tent, etc.
I like the idea of lithium batteries simply because they weigh less. Not necessarily because they last longer.

I painted a backgammon board on my sleeping pad (which I cut in half) but use aspirin and magnesium tabs for the pieces and have the smallest dice you'll ever see.

Things like that make me have a good time if I'm going with friends yet weigh nothing. (except the guitar of course)

Not everything is better however. I've learned to use plastic bags that you get in stores instead of stuff sacks but they are so cheaply made that the tiny bit of weight savings isn't worth the trouble. (but I still carry a styrofoam cup with lid from a coffee shop)

Heaviest thing in my pack (again, besides the guitar) measured in volume would be my tent stakes and I won't go with ones that I can't get into the ground without banding easily. So yeah, we've got to judge quality over weight preferences sometime.

[Hairbear]

Is there anyone that visits this forum that is not a 'light is right" hiker? I agree that as I get older I wish to lighten my pack, but I am not one of those, "I have my base weight down to so few pounds, can you do less?"
But there are some things that I just won't do without when I am day hiking, weekend hiking, or multi-day(week) hiking. Am I wrong in seeing that the attitude these days is that once the ultra-lite hiker sees you carrying what they consider to be too much or unnecessary things, that they look at you or tell you that you are doing something wrong, even if you don't complain about any part of what you are carrying?

it seems to me that the masses of mankind have the uncanny ability to see themselves as the center of the universe.they say h y o h but if you dont think like them you are not worth considering.get used to it you cant change them.the only thing you can change is you.let the trail be your teacher and all other crap will sound like charlie browns teacher.

[rocketsocks]

Is there anyone that visits this forum that is not a 'light is right" hiker? I agree that as I get older I wish to lighten my pack, but I am not one of those, "I have my base weight down to so few pounds, can you do less?"
But there are some things that I just won't do without when I am day hiking, weekend hiking, or multi-day(week) hiking. Am I wrong in seeing that the attitude these days is that once the ultra-lite hiker sees you carrying what they consider to be too much or unnecessary things, that they look at you or tell you that you are doing something wrong, even if you don't complain about any part of what you are carrying?

I find a good pinch in the arm can often bring the offending know it all,back down to earth,as well as a good ole heart felt..."Your Mama!",and if those tactics don't get your point across,there's always the "Whatever dude"turn and walk.Either way if a straight forward opinion is not solicited....who cares.

[moytoy]

Some of us still carry an external frame pack. So the answer is YES we are here! Although I do have a Jam, it's embarrassing I know!

[OzJacko]

I love reading up on all the lightweight stuff and quite often am looking at updating gear to something lighter but there is absolutely no way I am ultralight.
I have found that I am comfortable when my pack is a total of 16kg (35pounds) or less. I try to keep under this as a norm but can go way over sometimes.

When you're the sort of person who throws a full litre of fresh milk in the pack to have a decent coffee and a morning cereal breakfast you can hardly be ultralight. When you put 3 apples and 4 mandarines in when leaving town that's not ultralight. When you carry a stainless steel billy (as well as a titanium pot) that's not ultralight. My sleeping bag pleases me. I have no idea of it's weight and don't care. I carry a headlight and a powerful little torch, I don't care that that's duplication. But I've always thought a trowel looked silly so I use a big tent stake.

I recommend read the lightweight stuff and be aware of what's on offer, but don't sweat about it. It's your back and you can load it with whatever you damn well want! If some people want to take it to the extreme that's their right but doesn't mean they are right.

[T.S.Kobzol]

I am also not ultralight but it is refreshingly eyeopening to buy a scale and weigh your gear individually and write it down.

At least it makes for good choices within your existing gear.

I still wear leather boots, carry small milk for breakfast and coffee and I use canister stove and a stainless steel pot and I do use Kuksa as a drinking cup . I still make fire most of the nights.

But most of my tents are under 3 lbs, I recently added a lightweight WM sleeping bag and my backpack is under 3 lbs. I don't carry rainpants in the summer not a rainjacket. Just a lightweight poncho.

[10-K]

Why anyone would judge what someone else is carrying is beyond me.

[Tipi Walter]

Is there anyone that visits this forum that is not a 'light is right" hiker? I agree that as I get older I wish to lighten my pack, but I am not one of those, "I have my base weight down to so few pounds, can you do less?"
But there are some things that I just won't do without when I am day hiking, weekend hiking, or multi-day(week) hiking. Am I wrong in seeing that the attitude these days is that once the ultra-lite hiker sees you carrying what they consider to be too much or unnecessary things, that they look at you or tell you that you are doing something wrong, even if you don't complain about any part of what you are carrying?

IT'S THE FAST AND LIGHT HYSTERIA
Here's a portion of an Amazon book review of Andrew Skurka's "The Ultimate Hiker's Gear Guide" by reviewer Robert C. Ross:

"Skurka's basic mantra---'lighter, faster, further'---permeates this book. He argues that even a day hiker or an over-night backpacker should lighten their load: Lighter is more comfortable, comfort allows one to hike further, longer hikes yield more rewards."

LET'S REPEAT
" . . . lighter is more comfortable, comfort allows one to hike further, longer hikes yield more rewards."

It all sounds good but his final point is wrong. Sure, a light kit is more comfy and a light backpacker can travel further, but longer hikes in no way yield more rewards. Here is where the argument disintegrates. "More rewards" means nothing to a backpacker, except and unless these rewards are a warm and dry shelter at the end of the day, with protection from the wind. Living and sleeping in the woods for long periods is the priority, not going faster or longer or lighter. When will backpackers get this thru their thick skulls?


LONGER MILE DAYS IN NO WAY YIELDS MORE REWARDS
But the fast and light hysteria therefore must conclude that such travel yields more rewards, otherwise they'd just be fanatics tied into a self-imposed treadmill existence of the "forced march." If Skurka wants to punch his ticket and make a name for himself by moving fast and light and listing completed trails on his resume, that's between him and his own heart and between him and his god, but it has nothing to do with being "more rewarding" or a ultimate hiking style. If I pointed a gun at my own head and told myself, "You must hike the Sea to Sea trail", I would certainly wear a daypack and sleep like a dog in a bivy bag but there's no real reason to do so and then think it's the best way to go backpacking.

Fast and light could just as well be slow and heavy with 20 day expedition trips and no resupplies. Why not? Whoever said we need to punch out 20 mile days on a long trail or do a forced march across on a long trail or across Alaska? Why not explore an area for 120 days with 4 monthly food drops? Be mountain men, not extreme athletes.

HIKE VS CAMP
The high mileage fast and light types always love to spout this mantra----You either like to hike or like to camp---and do so to justify the judgment that hiking is morally superior to "just camping." Traditional and heavy backpackers (ultraloaders) rarely say this mantra because they know they do both, they both hike and camp, like me on this trip (I wrote this screed on a 22 day BMT trip w/o resupply). People who just camp set up basecamps and never hike, all the rest of us both hike and camp. Here's a factoid---someone with an 85 lb pack can still hike all day, he just won't be doing many miles. So what? If I hike 7 hours with 85 lbs and do 8 miles, so what? I'm hiking and camping.


DON'T BUY INTO THE FAST AND LIGHT HYSTERIA
The point is, don't let the fast and light types define the terms or become representatives of modern backpacking. They are not. Fast and light is just a corporate slogan and nothing else. Don't buy it! And when it rears its ugly head on backpacking forums fight back with a different view. Don't let the propaganda eat away or influence your relationship with Miss Nature and the outdoors. Carry a 75 lb pack, pull 4 mile days, camp at a different spot every night, explore a place thoroughly, and never ever let backpackers seem special or elite because they do 25 or 30 mile days. Shoot this oneupmanship down quick because it comes from a competitive edge fueled by testosterone poisoning and ego.


WHAT'S WRONG WITH SLOW AND HEAVY??
Go the other way, convince people to carry more weight, stay out longer and do shorter miles. Why not? Who became the arbiter of high mileage and ultralight loads? Why do they push this personal style of backpacking above all others? Why are so many websites and blogs devoted to UL backpacking and doing high miles? I guess because it makes people feel special, strong and tough. "I carry a 12 lb kit" becomes a rallying cry and an attempt to set themselves apart as unique and superior. Are backpackers going out to sleep in the woods and hike or are they going out to impress themselves and the UL community? End O Screed.

I'd love to see a Skurka book called, "My Four Years On The Appalachian Trail" or "Looping Around Alaska and the Yukon on a Ten Year Trip." Now we are talking! I would want to read that book. I suppose Americans are always trying to be bigger and better and this goes for American backpackers. They all yearn to become supermen, maybe it's the Can Do mindset or maybe it comes from the chosen people syndrome or manifest destiny whereby we think we're god's gift to the planet. If we believe this then of course we apply it in everything we do----the fastest cars, the highest jumpers, the biggest houses, the lightest packs, the fastest hikers, the highest miles.

SO ENDS ANOTHER SCREED

[Nutbrown]

I guess there are those people out there. Mostly I see in WB a lot of threads ASKING if there is anything that can be done to lower the weight. At certain times of year, these threads dominate the posts, which makes it look as if the opinions are flying. WHen asked, people will pick apart the gear down to the gram.

...and now that I re-read the op, you meant that about hikers in the real world...oops. Tell em to stick it whilst you make a gourmet meal and sleep on an air mattress!

[fiddlehead]

WHAT'S WRONG WITH SLOW AND HEAVY??

For me it plays havoc on my knees and ankles and takes the fun out of hiking.
Hey! If you are just camping, fine. Throw and extra case of beer on top. But don't go too far or, my old knees won't cooperate.

There's a difference between hiking and camping.
I believe Skurka was talking about hiking.

But Hey! I've never been one to try to stop anyone from doing what they like.
Have fun out there.

[d.o.c]

id say fugum ... what kind of gum? FUGUM... do what you do and enjoy it while you do it

[jburgasser]

Am I wrong in seeing that the attitude these days is that once the ultra-lite hiker sees you carrying what they consider to be too much or unnecessary things, that they look at you or tell you that you are doing something wrong, even if you don't complain about any part of what you are carrying?

I think most of the "arguments" about UL vs. Old School happen on WB and not on the trail. People I meet on the trail are 95% of the time freindly, eager to listen, and eager to talk. In fact, as an external-frame-carrying, original therm-a-rest with-the-steel-valve-using, with a large-sleeping-bag-that-hangs-from-the-bottom-of-my-pack hiker, I have never felt looked down upon by any other hikers on the trail. I have met folks with 20 lb packs and folks with 50 lb packs and have yet to have any type of contentous conversations. Maybe it is just my sunny disposition. My pack, by the way is between 40 and 45 pounds for a week. I would love to get it lighter but my pack has to wear
out first.

But I guess I would say that you are correct that White Blaze does seem to trend heavily to the side of the UL, as does popular opinion in the hiking community these days. But I don't think you run into that on the actual trail. Just get outside and have fun and bring what you need and carry it in whatever way you need to carry it.
62. A.T. at the Siler Bald Side Trail.jpg 7. Little Ridgepole Mtn....jpg

[jakedatc]

IT'S THE FAST AND LIGHT HYSTERIA
Here's a portion of an Amazon book review of Andrew Skurka's "The Ultimate Hiker's Gear Guide" by reviewer Robert C. Ross:

"Skurka's basic mantra---'lighter, faster, further'---permeates this book. He argues that even a day hiker or an over-night backpacker should lighten their load: Lighter is more comfortable, comfort allows one to hike further, longer hikes yield more rewards."

LET'S REPEAT
" . . . lighter is more comfortable, comfort allows one to hike further, longer hikes yield more rewards."

It all sounds good but his final point is wrong. Sure, a light kit is more comfy and a light backpacker can travel further, but longer hikes in no way yield more rewards. Here is where the argument disintegrates. "More rewards" means nothing to a backpacker, except and unless these rewards are a warm and dry shelter at the end of the day, with protection from the wind. Living and sleeping in the woods for long periods is the priority, not going faster or longer or lighter. When will backpackers get this thru their thick skulls?


LONGER MILE DAYS IN NO WAY YIELDS MORE REWARDS
But the fast and light hysteria therefore must conclude that such travel yields more rewards, otherwise they'd just be fanatics tied into a self-imposed treadmill existence of the "forced march." If Skurka wants to punch his ticket and make a name for himself by moving fast and light and listing completed trails on his resume, that's between him and his own heart and between him and his god, but it has nothing to do with being "more rewarding" or a ultimate hiking style. If I pointed a gun at my own head and told myself, "You must hike the Sea to Sea trail", I would certainly wear a daypack and sleep like a dog in a bivy bag but there's no real reason to do so and then think it's the best way to go backpacking.

Fast and light could just as well be slow and heavy with 20 day expedition trips and no resupplies. Why not? Whoever said we need to punch out 20 mile days on a long trail or do a forced march across on a long trail or across Alaska? Why not explore an area for 120 days with 4 monthly food drops? Be mountain men, not extreme athletes.

HIKE VS CAMP
The high mileage fast and light types always love to spout this mantra----You either like to hike or like to camp---and do so to justify the judgment that hiking is morally superior to "just camping." Traditional and heavy backpackers (ultraloaders) rarely say this mantra because they know they do both, they both hike and camp, like me on this trip (I wrote this screed on a 22 day BMT trip w/o resupply). People who just camp set up basecamps and never hike, all the rest of us both hike and camp. Here's a factoid---someone with an 85 lb pack can still hike all day, he just won't be doing many miles. So what? If I hike 7 hours with 85 lbs and do 8 miles, so what? I'm hiking and camping.


DON'T BUY INTO THE FAST AND LIGHT HYSTERIA
The point is, don't let the fast and light types define the terms or become representatives of modern backpacking. They are not. Fast and light is just a corporate slogan and nothing else. Don't buy it! And when it rears its ugly head on backpacking forums fight back with a different view. Don't let the propaganda eat away or influence your relationship with Miss Nature and the outdoors. Carry a 75 lb pack, pull 4 mile days, camp at a different spot every night, explore a place thoroughly, and never ever let backpackers seem special or elite because they do 25 or 30 mile days. Shoot this oneupmanship down quick because it comes from a competitive edge fueled by testosterone poisoning and ego.


WHAT'S WRONG WITH SLOW AND HEAVY??
Go the other way, convince people to carry more weight, stay out longer and do shorter miles. Why not? Who became the arbiter of high mileage and ultralight loads? Why do they push this personal style of backpacking above all others? Why are so many websites and blogs devoted to UL backpacking and doing high miles? I guess because it makes people feel special, strong and tough. "I carry a 12 lb kit" becomes a rallying cry and an attempt to set themselves apart as unique and superior. Are backpackers going out to sleep in the woods and hike or are they going out to impress themselves and the UL community? End O Screed.

I'd love to see a Skurka book called, "My Four Years On The Appalachian Trail" or "Looping Around Alaska and the Yukon on a Ten Year Trip." Now we are talking! I would want to read that book. I suppose Americans are always trying to be bigger and better and this goes for American backpackers. They all yearn to become supermen, maybe it's the Can Do mindset or maybe it comes from the chosen people syndrome or manifest destiny whereby we think we're god's gift to the planet. If we believe this then of course we apply it in everything we do----the fastest cars, the highest jumpers, the biggest houses, the lightest packs, the fastest hikers, the highest miles.

SO ENDS ANOTHER SCREED

LOL luckily these people are easy to pass and are not going where you're going

if people want to be campers then that it totally fine but don't knock people who would rather see a lot of different places than go 4 miles and sit in a chair by 2pm.

"Be mountain men, not extreme athletes."

some people would rather be athletes than slow pack mules.

[verasch]

I used to try to get my pack weight down so I could fit a 12 pack of old chub in the bag.

I definitely find myself in the hike and camp group. Now my priorities are a wee bit different than they used to be, i just try to keep my weight down to bring luxury items on the trail.

Who cares what yer slogging on with? Their your knees and back!

[Mags]

that they look at you or tell you that you are doing something wrong, even if you don't complain about any part of what you are carrying?

Only in the lalala land of the internet does this take place.

If someone is out hiking, they are too busy hiking to really gives a rat's patootie what you are carrying.

(Or should)

Seems like you have a big concern over something that rarely happens in the real world.

Based on the overlong posts from many, it really is an internet phenomenon.

Do what works for you. Have fun doing it. Get out there. Be safe.

Why is that so hard?

[turtle fast]

It comes down to that the two hiking styles are personal preference and dictated by budget and economy of use (why buy new if you only use it once in a while) and ecological reasons. The ecological reason is that you get your complete use of an object until its no longer functional...the impact of producing another object to replace your older one is considered. When it comes down to it, the important part is getting out there and enjoying the natural beauty that is around us.

[Moose2001]

What, and how much, you carry is no one's business but your own. Some of the "internet hikers" who frequent this site love to tell you everything you are doing wrong. Many of them need to learn the real meaning of "Hike Your Own Hike". If you find one on the trail that wants to tell you what you're doing wrong, just ignore them. Those kind of hikers usually fall by the wayside while you hike on. Carry what works for you and enjoy your trip.

[Bootbanger]

Hey, what works for one person may or may not work for another. Keep doing what you feel is good for yourself. I get advice from others, but the ultimate choice as to what I do (or carry) is my decision. Actually, in the end I can care less what others think is good for me. I am a mature adult and will do what I feel good about doing. Personally, I carry a very large ruck on my back. I carry what I will use. I also carry what I don't use, but think I might use later. You will find that most people will be able to tell you what is good for you even though they don't do it their-self. What I do is this: I look up on this White-blaze site for good advice. I read what others have done in the past. I even take lots of what I read very seriously. But in the end if I do the opposite, then it is my choice and can care less if others like it or not. Enjoy your hike and carry what you want to. One more thing: Just be yourself.

[HikerMom58]

"I guess because it makes people feel special, strong and tough".... you hit right on it Tipi Walter...people with" ego issues" are all over this.... especially the "special" piece. No one should let OTHER'S dysfunctional issues make them feel bad, EVER. It doesn't matter what the subject is... the truth about these types of people are indeed nauseating.