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  1. #41

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    She sounds like a not too smart of a person, but what can you do, they're all around us. Doesn't sound like Child Protective Services (CPS) can do a lot, since Damascus cops couldn't really do anything. It's called civil liberties and it's a tricky balancing act.

  2. #42

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    I get so tired of people who make statements like "we don't know the whole story..." In this case, we do know a lot of this woman's story and it is in her own words. Read her whole journal and then come back on this site and say that this woman is responsible! She is spending hundreds on gear while not having the basic necessities like food and shoes for her children. She is loading her children up like pack animals - especially her oldest. It is clear that many of her children do not want to be out there on the trail. This is HER dream.

    I am not opposed to helping a mother with a lot of kids when someone has lot their job or there are circumstances beyond their control. I do mind when as a taxpayer I'm helping to pay for their damn vacation! And I especially resent it when they make big promises to the media and then come into town and stiff the locals while taking advantage of their hospitality at the same time. If you don't have money to feed your family, you beg or borrow a ride home - you do not beg for more funds to continue your "dream."

    There are many hikers who have just matter-of-factly stated, "I really underestimated this trip financially and I'll have to get off the trail soon." They haven't asked for a dime but we have donated because they were so close and wanted to see them finish. They weren't buying lots of gear or staying in town a lot. And they weren't in Damascus! This woman is broke and just getting started.

  3. #43
    TOW's Avatar
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    Here's one for ya guys. The family hikes out yesterday making it as far as Taylors Valley on the Creeper Trail. So about noon they break camp and all of them head to Lost Mountain Shelter, except one. One of her boys walks back to town and realizes that he lost them. Coyote, who is in town walks up here to my place with the kid and then Lone Wolf shows up and then the law shows up. So Officer Dow and Lone Wolf takes the kid and they go and try to track down mom and the rest of the kids. What blows me away is the fact that she apparently did not have a clue the kid was missing or she would have called the law way before he walked back into town which was about 7 pm....

  4. #44
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    New Visa commercial:

    A video of LW's conversation with the mother...................... priceless.
    The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
    You never know which one is talking.

  5. #45
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    I wish I was there. Hope Officer Dow records it...

  6. #46

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    Sounds to me like she's giving those kids a different upbringing than most kids these days.
    I think they'll be better for it. (as long as she's also teaching them math, science, reading, writing, etc.)

    Travel is the best education IMO.

    Those of you who are judging her as wrong probably brought up sheep for kids.

    These kids will be fine.
    Don't let your fears stand in the way of your dreams

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOW View Post
    Here's one for ya guys. The family hikes out yesterday making it as far as Taylors Valley on the Creeper Trail. So about noon they break camp and all of them head to Lost Mountain Shelter, except one. One of her boys walks back to town and realizes that he lost them. Coyote, who is in town walks up here to my place with the kid and then Lone Wolf shows up and then the law shows up. So Officer Dow and Lone Wolf takes the kid and they go and try to track down mom and the rest of the kids. What blows me away is the fact that she apparently did not have a clue the kid was missing or she would have called the law way before he walked back into town which was about 7 pm....
    so me, the kid and officer dow go back to where they camped the night before. nobody there. the kid informs me that the destination for tonite was lost mtn. shelter so we drive to summit cut and hike south 1 mile to the shelter. one of his brothers is there and he informs me that mom and the rest are back 2 miles at the AT-creeper trail junction. we leave the kid with his brother with strict instructions to stay put til mom shows up. we drive to creek junction where i pull up a vehicle guard so we can drive to where the AT meets the creeper. in the headlights we see several packs on a bench. i get out and shine a light in the woods and see a hammock. mom and the rest of the kids are settled in for the nite. we told her where her boy was. she didn't seem too concerned. this farce of a hike needs to come to an end before someone gets hurt, kidnapped or killed

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiddlehead View Post
    Sounds to me like she's giving those kids a different upbringing than most kids these days.
    I think they'll be better for it. (as long as she's also teaching them math, science, reading, writing, etc.)

    Travel is the best education IMO.

    Those of you who are judging her as wrong probably brought up sheep for kids.

    These kids will be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    so me, the kid and officer dow go back to where they camped the night before. nobody there. the kid informs me that the destination for tonite was lost mtn. shelter so we drive to summit cut and hike south 1 mile to the shelter. one of his brothers is there and he informs me that mom and the rest are back 2 miles at the AT-creeper trail junction. we leave the kid with his brother with strict instructions to stay put til mom shows up. we drive to creek junction where i pull up a vehicle guard so we can drive to where the AT meets the creeper. in the headlights we see several packs on a bench. i get out and shine a light in the woods and see a hammock. mom and the rest of the kids are settled in for the nite. we told her where her boy was. she didn't seem too concerned. this farce of a hike needs to come to an end before someone gets hurt, kidnapped or killed
    You are right but so is Lone Wolf and so am I for my judgement of the situation. That kid told me the day before they left that he just did not want to leave here and he was none too happy....but on the other hand she says in her journal that this is the one that breaks down....so just maybe he separated himself from the group and hiked back to town of his own free will?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiddlehead View Post
    I think they'll be better for it. (as long as she's also teaching them math, science, reading, writing, etc.)
    ....her journal is written at a 6th grade writing level, so I am not sure just how much writing instruction they will get.

    With that aside, I do agree with you that travel is one of the best forms of instruction. We drive older cars, have a house that needs quite a bit of remodeling/fixing up, live quite simply during the year rarely eating out, and we have few "extras." However, we do travel quite a bit (usually camping)...taking the kids to many National Parks and Historical sites each year. My husband and I firmly believe in building memories.... Yet...that still needs to be done in a responsible manner.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    so me, the kid and officer dow go back to where they camped the night before. nobody there. the kid informs me that the destination for tonite was lost mtn. shelter so we drive to summit cut and hike south 1 mile to the shelter. one of his brothers is there and he informs me that mom and the rest are back 2 miles at the AT-creeper trail junction. we leave the kid with his brother with strict instructions to stay put til mom shows up. we drive to creek junction where i pull up a vehicle guard so we can drive to where the AT meets the creeper. in the headlights we see several packs on a bench. i get out and shine a light in the woods and see a hammock. mom and the rest of the kids are settled in for the nite. we told her where her boy was. she didn't seem too concerned. this farce of a hike needs to come to an end before someone gets hurt, kidnapped or killed
    How old was the kid who was missing? A mother who continues to camp while her son is missing should be reported. I hope that that Officer Dow is making copious notes.

  11. #51

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    I'm sorry, I didn't read all the posts, I know CPS was mentioned--did you actually report this to the local CPS? If you have, and nothing was done, I would encourage you to report this again.

    Gum

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supreme Being View Post
    How old was the kid who was missing?
    11 or so......

  13. #53
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    An accident (or accidents) waiting to happen...

  14. #54

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    I am surprised that Officer Dow did not take control of this situation. If one of her kids goes missing and is hurt as a result, it is going to come back to haunt him. Because it seems the world always needs a scapegoat. I would strongly suggest that he alert CPS authorities just to cover his own butt if nothing else. It might just save one of those children. If CPS chooses to do nothing, then it is on them. At the very least, he should alert them to the fact that she did not notify authorities or look for the 11-yr old who was missing and it is the second child that she has "lost" in the last 2 or 3 days on the trail.

    I am not opposed to taking your kids on the AT if they have a love of hiking too. I strongly support what Balls and Sunshine have accomplished. But this "forced march" is child abuse and extremely poor parenting.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    11 or so......
    Ohhhhhhhhhhh--THIS child--as absolutely adorable and sweet as he appears, is the child that according to his mother, is one of the reasons they are on the Trail and can't just 'go home.' He's burned their house down, terrorized the neighborhood, stolen from neighbors, abuses the other siblings, etc. She says if they go home, he will be put in jail. Evidently, this hike was an agreement with the authorities to keep him away from the neighbors. He can be cute and cunning at the same time. I witnessed this. She was probably enjoying the break and time with the other children. (Not that it makes it right...) He is a beautiful child and hopefully will get the help he needs at some point before he ends up in real trouble.
    Sunny aka Sunrise ga-me 02 aka Cody Zamora
    Have a bright and
    Sunny Day!

  16. #56

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    He is still 11 years old and no one in authority is going to tell a family to take a hike if the child is that much of a danger. They will remove the child or put services in place, not tell a mother with an out of control 11 year old to take off by herself with the child and other children. Don't buy it.

    Even if CPS doesn't intervene now, I would continue to report what you witness when incidents of a child being left by himself occur. It will at least create documentation of growing concern and won't make reports seem like isolated incidents.

    You all know, as much as we all love the trail, it can be dangerous if only accidentally for adults. This year has proven that. A child on their own is at risk.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by gumball View Post
    He is still 11 years old and no one in authority is going to tell a family to take a hike if the child is that much of a danger. They will remove the child or put services in place, not tell a mother with an out of control 11 year old to take off by herself with the child and other children. Don't buy it.

    Even if CPS doesn't intervene now, I would continue to report what you witness when incidents of a child being left by himself occur. It will at least create documentation of growing concern and won't make reports seem like isolated incidents.

    You all know, as much as we all love the trail, it can be dangerous if only accidentally for adults. This year has proven that. A child on their own is at risk.
    Absolutely agree with you. I do believe the child could be a danger to himself and others. However, since we do not know all of the details, it is hard to have an accurate perspective. My heart really goes out to ALL of them. I had a hard enough time taking care of my self on the Trail. Cannot imagine hiking with all these children! Good luck and hopes for safe travels for all of them.
    Sunny aka Sunrise ga-me 02 aka Cody Zamora
    Have a bright and
    Sunny Day!

  18. #58
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    this whole damn situation stinks. i ain't buyin' none of the stories. she was totally unconcerned last night when we told her we found her child. a real mom woulda called authorities right off the bat. what she's doing is not admirable

  19. #59
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    Mom taught me that if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything. Therefore, I can't say anything. I just hope the kids make it through this "adventure" unharmed.
    "Waning Gibbous" would be a great trail name.

  20. #60
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    Administrators, since we are discussing personal topics dealing with minors on a publicly accessible forum and since these discussions could have unforeseen and negative effects on the lives of these children, could we please move this discussion to the 'Sensitive Trail Subjects' Forum.

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