Homeless man living in shelters

[HikerMom58]

Just a "heads up" about a homeless man living on the AT. The local emergency crews are aware of a homeless man living in shelters, bouncing back and forth between Fullhardt Knob Shelter and Wilson Creek Shelter. These shelters are located in Central VA.... just past Daleville VA. I don't have any other details.

[Papa D]

I would guess that at any given time, there is about 1 homeless person per state "living" in trail shelters. I just ran into a guy at Velvet Rocks Shelter (near Hanover) about 3 weeks ago who fit the bill.

My thoughts are as follows:
There is a fine line between 3 types of people
1)homeless person (homeless due to circumstance)
2) a long-distance hiker (often temporarily homeless by choice)
3) A HOBO (who unlike a bum is someone who travels, will work for a while, and travel some more). The word origin is "HOmewardBOound -
We have NOBOS, SOBOS, HOBOS, and Section Hikers - - I'm not really sure that it is fair to judge someone's shelter use by what category they fit in.

If the shelter is being used as a place to sleep and "seek shelter" for a night or two and then that user moves on to another shelter and that person is respectful of other shelter users, then he / she really shouldn't be objectionable in my book unless they are violating acceptable use and respect standards that the backpacking community has established by practice (i.e. - no fire building in shelters, no pitching tents and tarps in shelters, no smoking in shelters, etc.). I think sometimes we are quick use people's social statusas a way to discriminate against them when what they are doing really isn't much different than what we are doing.

Just because someone smells, is drinking liquor, has worn out gear, or might be yellow blazing up and down the trail isn't a reason to call "emergency crews." This behavior could easily be applied to a bunch of thru-hikers.
If that person is harassing others, living in the shelter for more than a week at a time, keeping others out, or engaging in some criminal activity, then it's a different story and at THAT point, you have a PROBLEM PERSON who is not playing by the rules.

The trick (the fine line) is determining the difference without being discriminatory and I agree that it is hard but giving someone the initial benefit of the doubt is also the fair thing to do even if he / she doesn't look like YOU think a backpacker should.

[nitegaunt]

I would guess that at any given time, there is about 1 homeless person per state "living" in trail shelters. I just ran into a guy at Velvet Rocks Shelter (near Hanover) about 3 weeks ago who fit the bill.

My thoughts are as follows:
There is a fine line between 3 types of people
1)homeless person (homeless due to circumstance)
2) a long-distance hiker (often temporarily homeless by choice)
3) A HOBO (who unlike a bum is someone who travels, will work for a while, and travel some more). The word origin is "HOmewardBOound -
We have NOBOS, SOBOS, HOBOS, and Section Hikers - - I'm not really sure that it is fair to judge someone's shelter use by what category they fit in.

If the shelter is being used as a place to sleep and "seek shelter" for a night or two and then that user moves on to another shelter and that person is respectful of other shelter users, then he / she really shouldn't be objectionable in my book unless they are violating acceptable use and respect standards that the backpacking community has established by practice (i.e. - no fire building in shelters, no pitching tents and tarps in shelters, no smoking in shelters, etc.). I think sometimes we are quick use people's social statusas a way to discriminate against them when what they are doing really isn't much different than what we are doing.

Just because someone smells, is drinking liquor, has worn out gear, or might be yellow blazing up and down the trail isn't a reason to call "emergency crews." This behavior could easily be applied to a bunch of thru-hikers.
If that person is harassing others, living in the shelter for more than a week at a time, keeping others out, or engaging in some criminal activity, then it's a different story and at THAT point, you have a PROBLEM PERSON who is not playing by the rules.

The trick (the fine line) is determining the difference without being discriminatory and I agree that it is hard but giving someone the initial benefit of the doubt is also the fair thing to do even if he / she doesn't look like YOU think a backpacker should.

Very well put, Papa D.

[RED-DOG]

This is nothing new; Homeless people have been living in AT shelters for years, I run in to Homeless people every single time i go out their, i even gave a couple of people food one in VA and another in NY. They don't cause any problems their just trying to survive. RED-DOG

[Hairbear]

Very well put, Papa D.

i enjoy your open mind ++++++++1

[Bronk]

I live just a couple miles down the road from a national forest and this past spring I spent every weekend traveling the same 10 mile stretch and camped in the same two places every weekend for over two months. If I didn't have a day job I may have circulated this same area indefinitely until I got bored with it. I see no appreciable difference between what I've done and what a "homeless" person might be doing.

I think what it comes down to in these situations is whether anyone notices what you're doing and whether or not you wear out your welcome, whether anyone complains about it, and if they complain to someone in a position to do anything about it.

If you act in a reasonably polite manner and don't do anything to get noticed on somebody's radar screen then in most places I'd bet you will be left alone.

If you've been somewhere long enough for people to think you are 'living' there then I'd have to wonder how they would know this unless they were traveling the same stretch of trail just as often as you are. Someone who traveled the same area I did this past spring might have assumed I was living there simply because they saw me there several times over a period of weeks, when in fact they were merely weekend camping trips.

Having said that, I've seen people living in the national forest before...in one case they dug a hole and mounted a chair with a toilet seat over it some feet from their camp and had a tomato plant growing in a 5 gallon bucket next to their tent. These kinds of actions indicate that somebody is probably planning on staying awhile, and forest service rules limit the number of days you can stay in one place, and even set limits so that you can't continuously live in the forest simply by moving from one place to the other. The rules are probably different based on whether you are in a national forest, national park, state park, wilderness area, etc, etc. But the bottom line is that under the rules you aren't allowed to 'live' there indefintely. If you get noticed and somebody complains you're probably going to be asked to move along eventually, no matter how nice you are about it.

If you choose an out of the way place rather than a popular spot that anybody can drive right up to you'll probably get away with it for a much longer period of time.

[SawnieRobertson]

How would they know? Did this male/female exhibit anti-social behaviors? Is there a vagrancy rule that has been broken? Where is the line that determines whether a person on the trail is an undesirable or desirable? I would have a different reaction if scary behaviors were reported. And, yeah, it is anxiety producing to come across someone who doesn't look like he/she should be there legitimately. I might add especially in that region. "Homeless" must mean something more than without a verifiable address (in case the local authorities do a check).

[Spokes]

Trail maintenance crew should put a shovel in his hand and let him earn some points.......

[Papa D]

Trail maintenance crew should put a shovel in his hand and let him earn some points.......

nothing wrong with this for any hiker

[Pedaling Fool]

No heads-up needed, they're always out there.

Trail maintenance crew should put a shovel in his hand and let him earn some points.......

I would also ask that the trail maintenance crews have him remove all the rocks from the trail.

[Papa D]

Truthfully, If I suddenly became homeless, that is exactly where I would be. I would try to get a temporary construction, guiding, or hostel job to get enough cash to stay on the trail for a month or so. Moving back and forth in the same hundred mile section might keep me close to work. I'd much rather camp in the woods than in a cardboard box on a city street. I can't think of a thing in the world wrong with this. Now, once again, if I am violating trail respect and shelter use practices only then should I be called out for it.

[Zippy Morocco]

I like what I'm hearing. I certainly plan on being homeless for my 2013 hike. I am thankful that I can stop being homeless If I choose. We are not all so lucky.

[Gray Blazer]

Welcome to the AT.

[Wise Old Owl]

I am with Papa D on this one....I have seen tent cites in the woods all over New Jersey and Pennsylvania. folks that lost homes and cars to for-closure. The press will not show it and the mayor of Philadelphia has moved the bread and food lines away from the tourists areas like the convention center so people don't thing the economy is as bad as it is. People are sleeping in their cars, if they have them. The men's shelter had a major makeover in 2010 to accommodate more men - and gets repeatedly infested with bed bugs. My job takes me to these places, its sad really. If you are aware - you will see it - some have rose colored glasses. I am just thankful for having a job that really is recession/depression proof.

[HikerMom58]

I hear ya ... I agree with you all and the points you are making. All I know is this... we have a good friend that works for local emergency services, here, in the Roanoke VA area. He told us that there is a homeless man living in the shelters, of which I just named above. They KNOW he's there and they KNOW the shelters he is staying in.... he goes back and forth between the 2 shelters. He didn't give us any more information about why they are calling him homeless. I also know that there was another woman living in the Fullhardt Knob Shelter going by the name "Queen Mary". Her conversations seemed odd, like she was stuck in another world, but other than that she seem harmless. Again, everyone that talked with her and interacted with her was VERY SURE that she had taken up residence in the shelter, itself. I don't think she is still living there at this time.

It is what it is.....if I get more information about the situation, I will pass this information on ..... I would be grateful, if I were hiking through this area, for this information, so I wouldn't be surprised by something that appears to be "out of the norm". It's what I do... I'm also grateful for ALL the collective knowledge that is shared on this site.. love me some WB

[TD55]

I I also know that there was another woman living in the Fullhardt Knob Shelter going by the name "Queen Mary". Her conversations seemed odd, like she was stuck in another world, but other than that she seem harmless. Again, everyone that talked with her and interacted with her was VERY SURE that she had taken up residence in the shelter, itself. I don't think she is still living there at this time.

She used to maintain a camp downhill from the shelter. I met her there in '01. Looked for her in '05 but she must have been out and about and didn't get to talk to her. Think she has been around for a very long time. Glad to here she is still hanging out.

[TD55]

I hear ya ... I agree with you all and the points you are making. All I know is this... we have a good friend that works for local emergency services, here, in the Roanoke VA area. He told us that there is a homeless man living in the shelters, of which I just named above. They KNOW he's there and they KNOW the shelters he is staying in.... he goes back and forth between the 2 shelters. He didn't give us any more information about why they are calling him homeless. I also know that there was another woman living in the Fullhardt Knob Shelter going by the name "Queen Mary". Her conversations seemed odd, like she was stuck in another world, but other than that she seem harmless. Again, everyone that talked with her and interacted with her was VERY SURE that she had taken up residence in the shelter, itself. I don't think she is still living there at this time.

It is what it is.....if I get more information about the situation, I will pass this information on ..... I would be grateful, if I were hiking through this area, for this information, so I wouldn't be surprised by something that appears to be "out of the norm". It's what I do... I'm also grateful for ALL the collective knowledge that is shared on this site.. love me some WB

This is the one that is offensive.

[Lone Wolf]

I hear ya ... I agree with you all and the points you are making. All I know is this... we have a good friend that works for local emergency services, here, in the Roanoke VA area. He told us that there is a homeless man living in the shelters, of which I just named above. They KNOW he's there and they KNOW the shelters he is staying in.... he goes back and forth between the 2 shelters. He didn't give us any more information about why they are calling him homeless. I also know that there was another woman living in the Fullhardt Knob Shelter going by the name "Queen Mary". Her conversations seemed odd, like she was stuck in another world, but other than that she seem harmless. Again, everyone that talked with her and interacted with her was VERY SURE that she had taken up residence in the shelter, itself. I don't think she is still living there at this time.

queen mary has been out there in that area well over 10 years. this so-called "homeless" guy has every right to be there too. it's national forest. leave him alone. and what exactly are "emergency services"?

[Moose2001]

Just a "heads up" about a homeless man living on the AT. The local emergency crews are aware of a homeless man living in shelters, bouncing back and forth between Fullhardt Knob Shelter and Wilson Creek Shelter. These shelters are located in Central VA.... just past Daleville VA. I don't have any other details.

Yeah....there but for the grace of God, and maybe some good luck, go a whole bunch of us! In these times, I wouldn't want to try to judge someone else for their position in life.

[Rasty]

Just a "heads up" about a homeless man living on the AT. The local emergency crews are aware of a homeless man living in shelters, bouncing back and forth between Fullhardt Knob Shelter and Wilson Creek Shelter. These shelters are located in Central VA.... just past Daleville VA. I don't have any other details.

Yeah....there but for the grace of God, and maybe some good luck, go a whole bunch of us! In these times, I wouldn't want to try to judge someone else for their position in life.

Most of the world is one or two pay checks from the same position. Small tent cities all around the country just out of sight from the roads. If I had to choose between living in a tent or a homeless shelter I would go camping.