Crampons or snowshoes or both?

[Timinator]

As I said in one of my other posts I'm probably going to do part of the CDT in winter and I'm currently mulling over what to bring for snow crossing (it should be noted I have zero experience winter hiking, I'm going to start training this year). Right now I'm looking at http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/snowsh...ascent/product and http://hillsound.com/2products/trail_crampon_pro.php because they seem to be the lightest and most reliable I can find. Is there a reason I should carry both or can the snow shoe crampons handle what I need.

[Mags]

Which part? Besides snow conditions, you have to watch out for avalanche conditions, too esp in Colorado.

[Timinator]

Wyoming and montana.

[Snowleopard]

As I said in one of my other posts I'm probably going to do part of the CDT in winter and I'm currently mulling over what to bring for snow crossing (it should be noted I have zero experience winter hiking, I'm going to start training this year). Right now I'm looking at http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/snowsh...ascent/product and http://hillsound.com/2products/trail_crampon_pro.php because they seem to be the lightest and most reliable I can find. Is there a reason I should carry both or can the snow shoe crampons handle what I need.

You really need to get winter hiking/backpacking/mountaineering experience before you try this.
One way to start on this is the ADK Winter Mountaineering School http://www.winterschool.org/ or the equivalent courses at the AMC. Also, some AMC chapters teach winter courses. The AMC and ADK.org chapters have many trips in the winter and you should go on as many as you can; the leaders and participants are often very experienced. An avalanche awareness course is probably necessary also, but probably best done out west.

I have little experience out west in winter, so perhaps Mags can correct me here:
The Hillsound Pro is excellent for east coast conditions; I have a Camp Magix version of the same thing. BUT, I would consider these unacceptable for conditions where you might die if you fall. On steep hard ice you need real crampons and boots that are stiff enough to use them. Wyoming and Montana in winter will be cold enough that you probably should have plastic double mountaineering boots. You also need an ice axe and, even more important, knowledge of how to use it.
Snowshoes: you will want snowshoes. The thing I don't know is if you need snowshoes with more flotation (more area) to handle deep, cold, powdery snow.

[BrianLe]

I think it would help a lot if you (OP) were to expand on what you mean by "do part of the CDT in winter". Are you talking about just the normal snow experience both NOBOs and SOBOs encounter, or are you really talking about starting way out of season? The later "wyoming and montana" reply suggests to me perhaps you just mean a standard SOBO start sometime in June.

If that's what you mean, I suggest you drop the idea of snowshoes. Consolidated spring snow is a lot different from dealing with fresh snow. Some will bring real crampons; I was happy with kahtoola microspikes; you just have to have some sense for when these are adequate, and when you need to think instead about an alternate route.

I'm not saying that light snowshoes would be of no use in June in Montana, but at least my personal experience was that I virtually never would have wanted them. A couple of times maybe on soft afternoon snow, but even then it varies sometimes so much whether you're in trees or out.

[Tom Murphy]

Crampons and snowshoes have very different functions.

Crampons are used to gain traction on ice where a fall or a slide would injury you [exposure]. Snowshoes are used distribute your weight across a wider area so that you don't sink so much [posthole].

Altough some snowshooes have aggressive cleats, they don't work anywhere as well as crampons.

IMO if you need crampons then you need an ice axe. And you need to know how to use the axe properly to arrest your slide. Which means learning it from someone.

So, are you crossing any icy terrain where a slope of more than 10 degrees ? [not sure if that is too conservative a number, bascially a slope where if you fall you will slide] If so, bring crampons.

Also if you are breaking trail in deep snow, you will want a BIG snowshoes. In New England, on broken out trails I use a 8x25s. On the western high plains, I can easily imagine the need for 10x36s.

[Feral Bill]

Also if you are breaking trail in deep snow, you will want a BIG snowshoes. In New England, on broken out trails I use a 8x25s. On the western high plains, I can easily imagine the need for 10x36s.

If you are breaking trail on snowshoes, you won't get far without a couple more people to share the joy. On a tough day, you could make less than 1 MPH even with a small group, and exhaust yourselves doing it. As suggested above, do take a course.

[Snowleopard]

I misread your post as hiking all of the CDT in Wyoming and Montana in winter. If you're only doing part, people with local knowledge can might be able to point you to trails with minimal avalanche danger where you won't need crampons or ice axe.

Get a bunch of experience in the Adirondacks first.

[djcoin]

Sorry for the confusion. What I meant by doing part of the CDT in winter was I'm going to start the CDT late. Probably in july/august, meaning I will probably hit snow by the time I reach wyoming at some point. So what I am to get out of all this is that I should bring both crampons and snowshoes and the crampons I linked aren't real crampons? Also what can paid training courses offer me that I can't learn from books and online guides mixed with months of personal trial and error?

[Timinator]

Sorry for the confusion, what I meant by doing part of the cdt is that I will be starting late probably in july/august northbound so I should be hitting snow sometime in wyoming.
So what I am to take from all this is that I should bring crampons and snowshoes? And the crampons I listed aren't real crampons? What can paid training courses do for me that books/internet guides and a few months of trial and error can't?

[Feral Bill]

[QUOTE=What can paid training courses do for me that books/internet guides and a few months of trial and error can't?[/QUOTE] Actual experience in a safe, controlled environment. Could be a life saver.

[Timinator]

Hmmm, I think I will skip the paid courses as I'm tight on money as it is, even if it is recommended. I will probably be training on the AT during winter which shouldn't be too dangerous and at the same time have the right environments I need to learn. I don't live too far from the AT.

[leaftye]

A course will have others around to assist you if you get hurt or require rescue.

You can hurt yourself badly with crampons without falling or sliding. Improper use of crampons can turn a mild slide into a disaster.

I don't think a course is required, but at the least I highly recommend getting your experience with a group in an area where it'd be easy to get rescued from.

[Timinator]

I'd be all about it but not only can I not afford it, there also aren't any such courses near me that I'm aware of. $250+ is just way out of my realistic money range without compromising on something important.

[Mags]

I'd be all about it but not only can I not afford it, there also aren't any such courses near me that I'm aware of. $250+ is just way out of my realistic money range without compromising on something important.

Compromising on your safety before heading to the Rockies in winter is not the best idea.

Many local outdoor groups have experienced people who organize winter backpacks aimed towards beginners. Map and compass lessons and so on. All for little or no money. Plus you'll make some good friends in the process.

Better than freezing your tookus off somewhere in Montana.

[Timinator]

I'll look around but if it's anything more than free I'll probably have to pass. I'm on an air tight budget this year if I hope to do the CDT at all. So back to my original question, I should carry both crampons and snow shoes then? Was hoping that wouldn't be the answer, not looking forward to that extra weight. Are the choices I picked out good ones? I noticed someone said my crampons might not be good for out west but REI website says 10 point steel crampons are good for general mountaineering.

[leaftye]

I don't think you should carry crampons out there by yourself until you know from experience that you can use them safely.

[Timinator]

I think we should step away from the "get experience" thing now, thanks for you're concern but I really just want to get my question answered. I'll deal with getting the proper experience in my own time in my own way.

[colorado_rob]

Crampons are pretty useless in the "early " snows of November/December as it's very powdery that time of year and crampons don't have anything to bite into. Many years out here you won't have enough snow to worry about flotation until later, but some years you'd absolutely need snow shoes. No way to tell before hand. I recommend MSR Lightning Ascent shoes, or just the Evo ascents. Hey! that's the link you have, good choice. Those crampons look decent, not too technical, fairly light, not a bad choice. I use BD contact Strap crampons, look fairly similar. Again though, not much use for crampons until the snow hardens a bit. You might consider Katoola Micro spikes as an alternative. Lighter, slip on instantly, cheap. they do occasionally break, bring a short piece of bailing wire to repair in the field if you use them.

[Timinator]

Thank you rob you are awesome. I'm just curious if the Evo ascents can actually act as crampons since everyone seems to rave about their traction and the bottoms look a like super crampon.