Leash your dog PLEASE!

[Thirsty DPD]

Thirsty, please reread your own statement. Perhaps you will find the answer within it. Further, if you will reread mine you will notice that although I carry, I take the responsibility seriously as I on several occasions have used a lesser threshold of response. If your dog were to attack me and my normal response method were not sufficient then by all means, I would reserve the right to fire on it. If you choose to then attack me unarmed, then most likely you would just receive the force equal to unless I thought you posed more serious threat, which I highly doubt. And its very unlikely that you and I will encounter each other anyway. You would not know from talking to me or observing me that I carry, and that is what is defined by law. So...all said, you are talking out of the wrong hole and decided to put your own interpretation on my post rather than take it for the simple face value that was. I think that is what they call trolling if I'm not mistaken.

You missed my point, I can't imagine someone hiking with a vicious dog that would require a bullet to bring the situation under control (excessive force). I wonder how many of us have had that kind of encounter, really. But thanks for the compliment, and yes, it did smell like that before I ate it. And I did take your post at face value, make no mistake. Like I said, talks cheap, cows cost money.

[Wise Old Owl]

[RCBear]

Thirsty, I am not seeking a back and forth. The OP would probably argue your point that there does not exist dogs on the trail that are real problems. I guess I do understand your statement regarding talk and money, though I don't understand its application here. if it is to suggest that I wouldn't use whatever Force I felt necessary and was at my disposal to deter a dog attack or any other animal attack for that matter, then let's be very clear: the only time my weapon would clear its cover would be because I felt a real and present danger towards myself or someone else. and in that scenario, I feel very comfortable that I would discharge it if necessary. whether you feel I have the capacity, justification or the will to do so is irrelevant.

you have made several points that are contradictory and not very well thought out. I am humble and gentle by nature and do not care for bravado and I think you're mistaking my comments for that. but in real situations that have the potential to cause bodily injury or worse, I will never hesitate to use whatever force I feel necessary to attempt to end the situation. I do not look for them but feel very confident in my ability to think through those situations rationally and quickly.

it's no different than my approach to any of my decisions in life, be it parental, business or otherwise. my expectation is that everyone would do the same, my experience suggests otherwise.

I am NOT interested in purchasing any cows at this time however.

[Sarcasm the elf]

RCBear, I am a responsible dog owner and make no excuses or apologies for irresponsible dog owners. I assume that you're a responsible gun owner and you do not need to make any excuses or apologies for irresponsible gun owners.

This sub-forum was setup specifically for dog owners to discuss hiking with dogs. We all fully understand and expect that a person would defend themselves if they were being attacked by a dog. As long as you understand what justifies reasonable self defense (as you appear to from your hiking poles explanation), then it's a non issue.

That said please let's all just drop the subject it's not what this forum is here for and as you can tell it is not well received well by any of us that hike with dogs.

[Wise Old Owl]

I am glad you both worked this out, I am not concerned about your posts but the thread in general will hurt WB in the long run... It clearly is one thread I wish was closed and sink to the bottom.

[RCBear]

It was not my intention to imply I think cavalierly towards the topic. I am a dog owner and love them. The OP states she received the types of wounds that we can all agree could have been very serious. Every dangerous situation requires proper assessment and I thought my post was indicative of that. I reasonably felt the gentleman's response to it was over the top and ignored important distinctions I had made in an effort to make my statement appear inflammatory.

That said, out of deference, I will make this my last word on the matter.

[Wise Old Owl]

Well RC Bear - this is the internet.... not everything is clear in the first page, I hold nothing against you, but folk here are folk... we dont want to hear about shooting dogs as a last resort.... We don't need Mcgyvers either. I have been bitten by a police dog. How about Lets move on?

[RCBear]

hey, just glad to hear she didn't have permanent nerve damage that would have kept her from enjoying her next outdoor adventure. now i will graciously move on

[atmilkman]

Who knows? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zX2mQKDoI

[bardo]

Hi, new here but lived in east Tn for about 12 years so I'm not new to the AT in that region. I have been section hiking for a long time and I'm seriously considering a thru hike with my dog, a 4 year old female pitbull-boxer. She as usual will be off of a leash 90% of the time unless many people are around that she might annoy. She will approach you on the trail and she doesn't listen real well when she has her mind set. Her nature is outgoing and happy-go-lucky. But she looks mean and tough and many people have an anti-bully bias and assume the worst despite tail wagging and prancing posture.

I don't mean to be an internet hardass or a troll here but I can promise you if you so much as hit, let alone pull a gun, on my dog you will have a skull full of hot loaded JHP magnum. I've been attacked 3 times myself. I know all about it. But people can't give you a perfect seeing eye dog all the time and that doesn't make them bad owners. I don't train my dog to not approach and love other people beacuse I like and admire her youthful vitality. Me, I don't have alot of nice things to say about talking monkeys. You don't have the right to ruin my travels because of your narcissistic suburban sensibilities and ridiculous "etiquette" demands just as people with dogs shouldn't let a mean one off a leash or running around shelters begging for food......in a perfect world.

We all have a right to this earth and that especially includes dogs. Don't like it then go home. $.02

[RCBear]

Hi, new here but lived in east Tn for about 12 years so I'm not new to the AT in that region. I have been section hiking for a long time and I'm seriously considering a thru hike with my dog, a 4 year old female pitbull-boxer. She as usual will be off of a leash 90% of the time unless many people are around that she might annoy. She will approach you on the trail and she doesn't listen real well when she has her mind set. Her nature is outgoing and happy-go-lucky. But she looks mean and tough and many people have an anti-bully bias and assume the worst despite tail wagging and prancing posture.

I don't mean to be an internet hardass or a troll here but I can promise you if you so much as hit, let alone pull a gun, on my dog you will have a skull full of hot loaded JHP magnum. I've been attacked 3 times myself. I know all about it. But people can't give you a perfect seeing eye dog all the time and that doesn't make them bad owners. I don't train my dog to not approach and love other people beacuse I like and admire her youthful vitality. Me, I don't have alot of nice things to say about talking monkeys. You don't have the right to ruin my travels because of your narcissistic suburban sensibilities and ridiculous "etiquette" demands just as people with dogs shouldn't let a mean one off a leash or running around shelters begging for food......in a perfect world.

We all have a right to this earth and that especially includes dogs. Don't like it then go home. $.02

sorry Bardo, too much incessant rambling for me to follow accurately... did you say you will be traveling on the AT with your talking monkey? I am encouraged however that you're comfortable enough to discuss your prancing posture

[HikerMom58]

Hi, new here but lived in east Tn for about 12 years so I'm not new to the AT in that region. I have been section hiking for a long time and I'm seriously considering a thru hike with my dog, a 4 year old female pitbull-boxer. She as usual will be off of a leash 90% of the time unless many people are around that she might annoy. She will approach you on the trail and she doesn't listen real well when she has her mind set. Her nature is outgoing and happy-go-lucky. But she looks mean and tough and many people have an anti-bully bias and assume the worst despite tail wagging and prancing posture.

I don't mean to be an internet hardass or a troll here but I can promise you if you so much as hit, let alone pull a gun, on my dog you will have a skull full of hot loaded JHP magnum. I've been attacked 3 times myself. I know all about it. But people can't give you a perfect seeing eye dog all the time and that doesn't make them bad owners. I don't train my dog to not approach and love other people beacuse I like and admire her youthful vitality. Me, I don't have alot of nice things to say about talking monkeys. You don't have the right to ruin my travels because of your narcissistic suburban sensibilities and ridiculous "etiquette" demands just as people with dogs shouldn't let a mean one off a leash or running around shelters begging for food......in a perfect world.

We all have a right to this earth and that especially includes dogs. Don't like it then go home. $.02

Wow!! i don't agree with ur philosophy on dog's and people's right on this earth at all. I will share an incident that happened yesterday on this earth.

My daughter and I were hiking a popular trail behind our house with our cairn terrier, yesterday. We passed by a lot of people on the narrow path. I feel we have a right to enjoy that trail with our dog. I feel that others, on the trail, that don't like/fear dogs have a right to enjoy the trail as well. We passed by a girl that expressed verbally and with her body language that she was afraid of dogs. We got that and was very careful to respect her fears so that she could enjoy her day outside in the woods as much as we were, with our dog. We assured her verbally that we would not let our dog near her as we passed by each other.

It's all about respecting our differences. Not everyone on this earth are dog lovers. The dog lovers/owners should be able to enjoy their dogs outside in public places. If people on both sides respect each other then, there shouldn't be a problem. Staying in control of your dog at all times is the key to making this happen for the dog owners. People that don't like dogs need to trust the dog owners to do that and realize they have a right to be out there with their dogs. I'm sure everyone can see where this simple concept falls apart, opening a "can of worms" for things to go south very quickly. As a dog owner myself I will admit the following.....
I have been guilty of not respecting the rights of people that don't like dogs and also not being in control of my dog at all times in a public place. I'm thankful that when I "mess up" no one has been injured or someone hasn't reacted violently towards me or my dog for my mistake. I continue to be more aware of others as I'm out with my dog to make sure I'm not ruining their experience in their travels. I can honestly say, as a dog owner, it seems that people are way more respectful/tolerant of dogs and their owners than the other way around.

[yushan]

This is a very timely thread for me. On Nov. 30 at 4:45 pm, I was on the AT NB approaching the Bears Den side trail and I saw a woman coming in from the side trail letting her 3 large dogs off the leash. They bounded down the trail toward me. One seemed friendly and the second one growled at me. I stopped and starting telling the woman that she needed to keep her dogs on the leash. She said they would just run by and they did run by me. Then one of them bit me on the leg from behind. I told the lady, not in a calm voice, that her dog had just bitten me as she walked toward me on the trail. She said that he was afraid of my hiking stick. That's all she said and then she passed me with not another word. No apologies or rabies vaccinations info offered.

Back at the Bears Den day lot, I found what was obviously her car with a separate compartment in the back for dogs separated from the front seat by a divider - a Ford Escape with the license plate "TALE WGN" and a sticker that says "Adopt a Pet". I reported this to the sheriff's dept. and they have been trying to get in touch with her because I have NO rabies information about the dogs. But she hasn't returned any phone calls and doesn't answer her door. It doesn't help that she apparently doesn't live in the same county as where the crime happened. Clarke County where Bears Den is is very close to Loudoun County, where I think she lives.

So I'm finding out that I am supposed to start taking shots on Day 0 of possible exposure to rabies. Now it's been almost 48 hours since the dogbite. Incidentally, the shots cost thousands of dollars. I can't find anyone who can tell me what is the window before I must take the shots.

I am not feeling kindly right now toward dog lovers - especially this one who puts her dogs before humans.

[rickb]

This is a very timely thread for me. On Nov. 30 at 4:45 pm, I was on the AT NB approaching the Bears Den side trail and I saw a woman coming in from the side trail letting her 3 large dogs off the leash. They bounded down the trail toward me. One seemed friendly and the second one growled at me. I stopped and starting telling the woman that she needed to keep her dogs on the leash. She said they would just run by and they did run by me. Then one of them bit me on the leg from behind. I told the lady, not in a calm voice, that her dog had just bitten me as she walked toward me on the trail. She said that he was afraid of my hiking stick. That's all she said and then she passed me with not another word. No apologies or rabies vaccinations info offered.

Back at the Bears Den day lot, I found what was obviously her car with a separate compartment in the back for dogs separated from the front seat by a divider - a Ford Escape with the license plate "TALE WGN" and a sticker that says "Adopt a Pet". I reported this to the sheriff's dept. and they have been trying to get in touch with her because I have NO rabies information about the dogs. But she hasn't returned any phone calls and doesn't answer her door. It doesn't help that she apparently doesn't live in the same county as where the crime happened. Clarke County where Bears Den is is very close to Loudoun County, where I think she lives.

So I'm finding out that I am supposed to start taking shots on Day 0 of possible exposure to rabies. Now it's been almost 48 hours since the dogbite. Incidentally, the shots cost thousands of dollars. I can't find anyone who can tell me what is the window before I must take the shots.

I am not feeling kindly right now toward dog lovers - especially this one who puts her dogs before humans.

Sorry to hear this.

If I were in your shoes, i would:

1) See a doctor for health recomendations and treatment. In addition to rabies there are issues like tetnus to consider. Money for treament is always important, but so is missing a day of work for a doctor's appointment (if you can even get one quickly) and the worry. I'd go to my local emergency room today since today is Sunday and worry about the ill blater.

2) Call a lawer(s) first thing Monday AM. Putting monetary damages aside, it sounds like you need an advocate to get the police to do thier job. But don't minimize your claim for monetary damages.

3) Make sure your local Police understand that your imidate concerns regarding the bite are health related. Do this today. As to speak with the cheif or a supervisor. Be very direct with them on this and document your concerns by an email or similar. Make them understand that thier decision to follow through or not has a very real impact on you health care decisions, and that your position is that they should help you get the information you need. Be respectful, but firm.

That's what I'd do. Once I toook care of the above, I would do everything in my power to push a civil claim thrrough the courst to hold the person responsible for this to account.

[HikerMom58]

yushan...I'm very sorry to hear about what happened to you... keep us informed about how this thing plays out for you. I feel your pain!

[yushan]

All good advice - thanks very much.

[Lauriep]

There are many areas of the A.T. where regulations require dogs to be on a leash, and that includes the almost 40% of the A.T. on lands acquired specifically for the A.T. and overseen by the National Park Service: http://www.nps.gov/appa/planyourvisit/pets.htm. Most of the A.T. in northern Virginia is on NPS A.T. lands.

All the other separate National Park units the A.T. passes through requires dogs to be on a leash:

Blue Ridge Parkway, VA
Shenandoah National Park, VA
Harpers Ferry National Historical Park, VA/WV
C&O National Historical Park, MD
Delaware Water Gap National Recreation area, PA/NJ

except for the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, TN/NC, where they are prohibited. I think others on this thread have mentioned the 3 places dogs are prohibited (Smokies, Bear Mountain Zoo, NY
and Baxter State Park, ME)

Leave No Trace guidelines suggest that a dog either be kept on a leash or other form of control, out of respect for other visitors and to protect wildlife.

Laurie P.
ATC

[Namaste]

Yushan, very sorry to hear about your incident.....I know EXACTLY how you feel. Good luck with finding the person.

Since this thread was resurrected by others, not myself, the whole point was to simply leash your dog/s when hiking to prevent problems. Lucky (I guess) that in my case I got all the information I needed from the dog owner who was very apologetic and took responsibility.

Total medical bills paid by her for her unleashed "friendly" dog who bit me $1700.00. Yes $1700.00. All because she didn't LEASH HER DOG! Totally preventable. I have 5 permanent bite scars with no nerve damage. I can still hike.

[Namaste]

...and thank you Lauriep for your post reminding everyone about dogs and leashes....so simple.

[Marta]

Hi, new here but lived in east Tn for about 12 years so I'm not new to the AT in that region. I have been section hiking for a long time and I'm seriously considering a thru hike with my dog, a 4 year old female pitbull-boxer. She as usual will be off of a leash 90% of the time unless many people are around that she might annoy. She will approach you on the trail and she doesn't listen real well when she has her mind set. Her nature is outgoing and happy-go-lucky. But she looks mean and tough and many people have an anti-bully bias and assume the worst despite tail wagging and prancing posture.

I don't mean to be an internet hardass or a troll here but I can promise you if you so much as hit, let alone pull a gun, on my dog you will have a skull full of hot loaded JHP magnum. I've been attacked 3 times myself. I know all about it. But people can't give you a perfect seeing eye dog all the time and that doesn't make them bad owners. I don't train my dog to not approach and love other people beacuse I like and admire her youthful vitality. Me, I don't have alot of nice things to say about talking monkeys. You don't have the right to ruin my travels because of your narcissistic suburban sensibilities and ridiculous "etiquette" demands just as people with dogs shouldn't let a mean one off a leash or running around shelters begging for food......in a perfect world.

We all have a right to this earth and that especially includes dogs. Don't like it then go home. $.02

If you can't control her by voice, you need to keep the dog on a leash 100% of the time. Dogs do not have a right to run around chasing wildlife and harassing people. If you want yours to do that, you need to keep it on your own private property.

From the dog's point of view, you are protecting them by leashing them. A dog has no idea that you are planning to hike for eight or ten hours. They happily assume you're going for a short walk and will race around like maniacs, and then want to quit. They also run into trouble with porcupines and other hostile critters, not to mention other dogs, and cars. If the dog is carrying a pack, they might discover they can shed that pack...which will normally include their food. (A friend of mine had a dog which learned to lose his pack. It caused some problems on several hikes.)

Letting a dog run loose on the trail is like letting a toddler loose in a candy store. They'll be happy for a while, but in the long run its not good for them.