Thoughts on quilts

[Elaikases]

How much difference is there really between quilt brands that have the same amount of the same down loft?

Trying to get a handle on possible upgrades to my current quilt and that hit me.

The other question I had about quilts had to do with layering them two deep (especially with ultra lightweight nylon) vs. a single heavier quilt.

[Dogwood]

How much difference is there really between quilt brands that have the same amount of the same down loft?

Possibly quite a bit of difference.

In what regard are you asking this question?

[Dogwood]

Down loft measurement is but one spec to get some idea of warmth in a quilt. It's a starting point. DO NOT JUST compare inches of down loft making warmth comparisons!!! IMO that is a common misleading quilt myth. because...

Quilts like sleeping bags but possibly more so with quilts are variable in design, construction, etc. and having no official third party equalized temp rating system under uniform conditions. You already mentioned one such difference - fabrics. AND, like sleeping bags but EVEN MORE SO WITH QUILTS quilts are rarely to ever used in the real world as stand alone pieces. Quilts are in fact components most often in a sleep system with the other components also widely variable and possibly profoundly affecting the sleep system.

[blw2]

........ AND, like sleeping bags but EVEN MORE SO WITH QUILTS quilts are rarely to ever used in the real world as stand alone pieces. Quilts are in fact components most often in a sleep system with the other components also widely variable and possibly profoundly affecting the sleep system.

I'm curious what you mean by this. Do you mean system = quilt + pad
or something more?
I have a BA Kings Canyon quikt for warm weather & like it well enough. It's synthetic and not much fill but that's what I wanted. My only dislike is taht it puts me sleeping directly on my pad. I have yet to find a decent solution for something light weight to use as a bottom sheet. Wondering if that's what you were getting at in terms of "system"....

[garlic08]

Besides the obvious variable in quality of down, one main factor will be baffling. I like the system in my older EE quilt that lets me move the down in both directions, but it's a little "loose" and I have to arrange it every night I use it.

I've never tried layering quilts, but have thought about it. I think if you add two extra layers of shell fabric between the extra insulation, you're going to lose some of the loft in the lower quilt just from extra weight. Ventilation of the down will be affected, too--the lower quilt may get damper than you'd like. Sorry, no empirical data to back those thoughts up.

[Ethesis]

I see things like this and then I think my sleeping bag at 32 ounces is probably a lot warmer.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06ZZ...PhL&ref=plSrch

[egilbe]

"sleep system" includes, quilt, sleeping pad, base layers and any other clothing to augment your "system". Can stretch a warm weather quilt a few more degrees by wearing a hooded puffy, hat, mittens, rain pants, etc. It's actually an ultra light technique to get more use from items that are normally carried, but not often worn when hiking.

Your system needs to be balanced. Can't use a winter quilt or sleeping bag with a Summer pad, for instance. You will freeze regardless.

[Ethesis]

And I doubt that this is really ready for 15 degrees F.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01NA...0ZL&ref=plSrch


though I loved the reviewer for this one who just said pay a tiny bit more and get custom

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/B018R02TTE/ref=mw_dp_cr

[egilbe]

Compare the total weight to one of EE's quilts, for instance. More like a 30 degree quilt.

[Ethesis]

Compare the total weight to one of EE's quilts, for instance. More like a 30 degree quilt.

Exactly. Which is why the one reviewer said you should really just buy EE.

That made me smile.

[Dogwood]

Too many generalized questionable of dubious origins quilt reviews regarding warmth, warmth to wt ratios, wt, volume, cost etc metrics that ignore mentioning specific conditions under which they are being offered relying too extensively on loft measurements as the main means of determining warmth metrics. Very often these determinations are more quilt marketing than individual reality. Some(many?) quilt proponents will quickly write it all off to a quilt fiddle factor. For example, in the link that Ethesis provided regarding the so called quilt that was good down to 15* F or as the advertisement states:

• ►WARM - Stay toasty warm due to the large baffled construction and 22 oz. of high loft 700-fill power down which provides an excellent temperature rating down to 15F (-10C),

What does that mean;how is it being rated down to 15* F? If it is accomplished by substituting with a wider, longer, higher R Value, perhaps likely heavier wt, added $ cost, and more voluminous pad than that isn't the quilt that should be rated down to 15*! It is actually the overall sleep system that is being misleadingly referred to. And, therefore the ultimate wt, bulk, and $ cost of the total sleep system is different than just looking at the quilt. As another example, if I have to bring a separate jacket or down hood to sleep in that I normally would not or will not wear while hiking than perhaps the wt, $$$ cost, and bit of volume should be added to the total ultimate sleep system? Hmm, that makes a sleep system with a quilt as the major component perhaps not so $ cheap, light wt, or less voluminous as advertised? There is no doubt in my mind there are more things to think about using a quilt depending on what my goals are and in context of those goals similarly lining up as quilt sellers and reviewers commonly advertise. And, I'm excluding the warm/cold/neutral sleeper, different people have different metabolisms, etc factors. I'm referring to the gear - the sleep system and quilts.


Too many misleading assertions with the quilt grandstanding crowd(I'm a quilt user and sleeping bag user) offering opinions like "there is no insulating or warmth holding ability of the pie shaped removed part of a sleeping bag or crushed down in the insulation under you." That's been said so many times it's taken for granted as true. I rah rah my gear and as said I use quilts too. First, it's not just down under you in a sleeping bag but fabrics, often with some sort of treatment like a DWR, baffle materials, offering enclosure. If this was true than a 30* quilt wouldn't have to be amended or fiddled with so much to get the same warmth as an accurately rated higher end accurately temp rated sleeping bag given everything being similarly equal. Is it just me or have others noticed the paucity of quilt reviews and quilt advertising where the quilt was regularly slept in at or slightly below its temp rating especially in quilts rated 30* F or lower or leaving out under what conditions, gear set up, etc it was accomplished?

[Dogwood]

"sleep system" includes, quilt, sleeping pad, base layers and any other clothing to augment your "system". Can stretch a warm weather quilt a few more degrees by wearing a hooded puffy, hat, mittens, rain pants, etc. It's actually an ultra light technique to get more use from items that are normally carried, but not often worn when hiking...

I go so far to to include considering shelter selection or if no shelter us used in the sleep system making the two have multiple/crossover uses. For example, hanging, if the hammock is totally enclosed like Dutch's new Chameleon with top cover(for winter), cowboy camping, cowboy camping in the corner of an AT lean to, zipped up inside a totally enclosed double or single wall tent, cross over tent having 1 and 2 wall elements, using a stand alone or WR bivy, true tarping/tarp config( A frame verse something like a MLD SoloMid), etc All these different set up scenarios just considering the gear not even skills can add to or decrease sleep system characteristics like warmth.

Choice of ground cloth or if any is used plays a role in the sleep system.

[Venchka]

Here's the deal. Personally, my body can't quite reach the numbers in the lower temperature range. I can get close. I'm off by about 5 degrees. For all you fill power and treatment folks, "It just doesn't matter."
https://backpackinglight.com/bpl_sle...ion_statement/
Also, Western Mountaineering measures loft at the lowest point. Roughly mid-shin.
Wayne


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[Venchka]

Yes. A real double wall or windproof single wall tent makes a real difference.
Wayne


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[Busky2]

When I tent or use a shelter I use a bag for late Fall, Winter and early Spring then switch to my quilt for May thru Sept/early Oct. I use the same pad year round. And if it is really, really cold, like around 0* I bag and quilt, looks funny but my butt stays warm.

Montbell #3 bag, Sea to Summit Ember quilt, NeoAir Xlite pad

[Elaikases]

Too many generalized questionable of dubious origins quilt reviews regarding warmth, warmth to wt ratios, wt, volume, cost etc metrics that ignore mentioning specific conditions under which they are being offered relying too extensively on loft measurements as the main means of determining warmth metrics. Very often these determinations are more quilt marketing than individual reality. Some(many?) quilt proponents will quickly write it all off to a quilt fiddle factor. For example, in the link that Ethesis provided regarding the so called quilt that was good down to 15* F or as the advertisement states:

• ►WARM - Stay toasty warm due to the large baffled construction and 22 oz. of high loft 700-fill power down which provides an excellent temperature rating down to 15F (-10C),

What does that mean;how is it being rated down to 15* F? If it is accomplished by substituting with a wider, longer, higher R Value, perhaps likely heavier wt, added $ cost, and more voluminous pad than that isn't the quilt that should be rated down to 15*! It is actually the overall sleep system that is being misleadingly referred to. And, therefore the ultimate wt, bulk, and $ cost of the total sleep system is different than just looking at the quilt. As another example, if I have to bring a separate jacket or down hood to sleep in that I normally would not or will not wear while hiking than perhaps the wt, $$$ cost, and bit of volume should be added to the total ultimate sleep system? Hmm, that makes a sleep system with a quilt as the major component perhaps not so $ cheap, light wt, or less voluminous as advertised? There is no doubt in my mind there are more things to think about using a quilt depending on what my goals are and in context of those goals similarly lining up as quilt sellers and reviewers commonly advertise. And, I'm excluding the warm/cold/neutral sleeper, different people have different metabolisms, etc factors. I'm referring to the gear - the sleep system and quilts.


Too many misleading assertions with the quilt grandstanding crowd(I'm a quilt user and sleeping bag user) offering opinions like "there is no insulating or warmth holding ability of the pie shaped removed part of a sleeping bag or crushed down in the insulation under you." That's been said so many times it's taken for granted as true. I rah rah my gear and as said I use quilts too. First, it's not just down under you in a sleeping bag but fabrics, often with some sort of treatment like a DWR, baffle materials, offering enclosure. If this was true than a 30* quilt wouldn't have to be amended or fiddled with so much to get the same warmth as an accurately rated higher end accurately temp rated sleeping bag given everything being similarly equal. Is it just me or have others noticed the paucity of quilt reviews and quilt advertising where the quilt was regularly slept in at or slightly below its temp rating especially in quilts rated 30* F or lower or leaving out under what conditions, gear set up, etc it was accomplished?

Exactly why I so want a better review system for quilts.

I see excellent comparisons, etc. with bags. But with quilts? Not so much. It is like wandering into a disco and trying to evaluate the quality of the food next door to read some reviews.

[Elaikases]

Here's the deal. Personally, my body can't quite reach the numbers in the lower temperature range. I can get close. I'm off by about 5 degrees. For all you fill power and treatment folks, "It just doesn't matter."
https://backpackinglight.com/bpl_sle...ion_statement/
Also, Western Mountaineering measures loft at the lowest point. Roughly mid-shin.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the link:

Note that the loft figures in Table 1 are for single-layer loft. This is the thickness of the insulation on top of the sleeper; any insulation under the sleeper is ignored. Also, bear in mind that in addition to the physiological factors mentioned above, construction details of the bag, as well as environmental conditions can influence the warmth of a bag tremendously. Don’t expect to sleep out comfortably in your 3.5-inch thick drafty quilt in a sub-zero blizzard atop Mt. Rainier after a day of climbing 7000 feet and consuming 1000 calories of dehydrated goop, just because Table 1 says it should be warm at -10 degrees! Use this table only as a starting point to determine the warmth of your sleep system. Experiment under safe conditions to find out what works for you.

[garlic08]

Of course, another variable is the way you sleep. A tosser-and-turner would not appreciate a quilt at all.

I guess the last sentence in the post above pretty much sums it up (for all things ever made in history--and what we used to do before there was an internet).

[egilbe]

I toss and turn and love my quilts. The reason I love my quilts is because I toss and turn. I found mummy bags too restrictive, except in deep Winter, for some reason. I have an Eddie Baueur -30 bag and its pretty roomy.

[Busky2]

[QUOTE=garlic08;2161025]Of course, another variable is the way you sleep. A tosser-and-turner would not appreciate a quilt at all.

As a toss and turner I like the quilt better because I can spin under that thing with out having a compressed spot exposed on one side or the other allowing a cold area to happen. The quilt just does not get compressed when I spin.