what happened to the campmor down bag?

[mister krabs]

What happened to the campmor down bag? I needed to recommend a cheap down bag to a friend and it's gone.
Alternatives?

[Old Hiker]

Still some Kelty down bags - $100 to $150. Good luck.

[leaftye]

We were told it's not coming back. I don't remember if a reason was supplied.

[Tipi Walter]

This will save newbs money in the long run. Mediocre gear has to be replaced several times in order to find what really works---but buy high quality right off and you actually save money. Why buy Walmart boots for backpacking and replace them 3 or 4 times when you can just start off with Asolos or La Sportiva and keep them for 5 years?

[leaftye]

A cheap bag can be a good choice when you're starting out. You may be thinking about trying out a quilt, but want to start more traditionally with a sleeping bag. While sometimes the money on cheap gear can be wasted when upgrading, a down sleeping bag can usually be resold and recoup half the price or more. As long as you aren't going with a synthetic bag that often have very little resale value, you should be fine. It looks like you've been around here long enough to know what is easy to sell and what is not.

[bigcranky]

The Kelty Cosmic down bag gets some pretty good reviews, and costs around $100.

[Donde]

REI Sub-Kilo

[moytoy]

The Kelty line replaced the campmor bags. I don't know for a fact but I suspect the cost of keeping the campmor bags in production was not as efficient at just remarketing the Kelty. The 20 degree campmor rectangular bag was a very good product for the the price.

[mister krabs]

It's for an 11 year old scout, the mantra of "you'll regret not getting a western mountaineering or marmot gas series" is laughable. BPL had a favorable review of the kelty, I'll steer him that way.

[leaftye]

The Kelty line replaced the campmor bags. I don't know for a fact but I suspect the cost of keeping the campmor bags in production was not as efficient at just remarketing the Kelty. The 20 degree campmor rectangular bag was a very good product for the the price.

They were around simultaneously for at least two years iirc. Assuming the Campmor was cancelled because the profit margin on the Kelty bag was higher is the only thing that makes sense. That's kind of what you said, and kind of what I was originally planning on saying. There's multiple reasons that could be, and we may never know.

[StubbleJumper]

Lower end bags are just fine, as long as you understand what you're getting. I bought an inexpensive 0-degree bag this summer, but my expectation is that I'll use it for fewer than 100 nights over the next 10 years. For only 100 nights, it's hardly worth spending $500 or $600 dollars on a really nice WM bag. For the majority of my backpacking in the next 10 years, I expect to go with a 32-degree bag, so that's where I'll put my money.

There are few absolute answers when it comes to gear!

[mark schofield]

I've had a sub-kilo for 4 years. no complaints.

[Tipi Walter]

It's for an 11 year old scout, the mantra of "you'll regret not getting a western mountaineering or marmot gas series" is laughable. BPL had a favorable review of the kelty, I'll steer him that way.

Kids always seem to get the "short end of the stick" when it comes to gear. It's as if they are young and small and therefore can get by with butt-cheap gear right at the edge of their comfort zone, like a Kelty bag rated at 20F which stops working at 35F. This of course won't be discovered until out in the field. But heck, they're just kids, they can take it.

I've seen hundreds of kids on backpacking trips in expedition groups forced to use Tarps as their sole shelters. Why not? Cram them together and don't worry about ground water pooling or high winds or snow spindrift or summer bugs because they're kids and they probably need to suffer a little bit as a condition for learning. And then they come into camp and you find out their gear is soaken wet from the night before due to a leaking tarp but who cares? They'll make do somehow.

Instead, get them high quality gear and teach them how to use it. Instead of tarps, a group could have 4 to a North Face VE25 and each could hump the different parts to cut weight---poles, fly, tent body, stakes, etc. Much better than a tarp.

But who wants to spend $600 on a sleeping bag for a kid or $500 for a tent? There's the rub.

[yellowsirocco]

This will save newbs money in the long run. Mediocre gear has to be replaced several times in order to find what really works---but buy high quality right off and you actually save money. Why buy Walmart boots for backpacking and replace them 3 or 4 times when you can just start off with Asolos or La Sportiva and keep them for 5 years?

The campmor bag was not Walmart level. It was a decent bag at a good price. It won't save newbs money either, they will buy something else cheap. Only stupid thru-hikers who have lots of money and have never hiked before drop the cash for WM/FF as their first bag. Walking lots of miles with weight on your back and sleeping through cold nights is what ends up justifying a nice sleeping bag for normal people.

[Don H]

mister krabs, I was looking for Campmor down bags the other day for the same reason you were, for a recommendation to some new Scouts. So here's some suggestions from a current Scoutmaster who takes boys backpacking on a regular bases.

Look at REI bags on sale. Especially the women's bags, they fit young scouts and are often on sale at a deep discount.
Check Campmor, same as above.
Be aware that these bags will not be comfortable at their rating. Go one rating below what you think you need. A 20* bag is good for most of the year around here. When it gets colder, like January and February when we camp outside you can use a cheaper bag and layer the down bag over it.

I wouldn't recommend a Scout pay much more than $125 for a down bag. It's likely that the boy won't be using it for more than a few years either because he leaves scouts, he outgrows the bag, or he wants to upgrade for a high adventure trip like Philmont.

[Tipi Walter]

Only stupid thru-hikers who have lots of money and have never hiked before drop the cash for WM/FF as their first bag.

I don't understand this quote. Many thruhikers on the AT that I've seen lately are carrying lightweight Western Mountaineering bags like the Ultralite or the Highlite or the Megalite as their first bag. Why? Because they are super light and super warm---850+ fill makes all the difference. And because word gets around. My whole point is, first time buyers would be better off getting a high quality down bag right off the bat and thereby saving themselves the inevitable pining for a WM bag which will happen if they continue to backpack.

It's not a class-warfare kind of thing---it's about staying toasty warm on cold winter nights with something incredibly light. A sleeping bag is the most important item when it comes to winter backpacking, so go ahead and get the best. If you don't now you will later. But if you're only going out on one trip in a lifetime, well, a rolled up carpet or a couple wool army blankets or a couple Coleman bags from Walmart will work. I'm talking about newbs who are committed to a life outdoors. Newbs-in-poverty will use whatever they can get---an Army feather bag comes to mind---but they'll hear about "those high quality down bags" and will eventually, inevitably, get one.

The neat thing about backpacking is this---it's not like cars where the best like a Ferrari will cost you $250,000 to $300,000. The best backpacking gear is comparably cheap.

[mudhead]

Yah. The days of a rolled up blanket cuz that is what you had are over. Tipi- look at some of your old pics.

Anyone notice campmor has gone more label conscious?

[dla]

This will save newbs money in the long run. Mediocre gear has to be replaced several times in order to find what really works---but buy high quality right off and you actually save money. Why buy Walmart boots for backpacking and replace them 3 or 4 times when you can just start off with Asolos or La Sportiva and keep them for 5 years?

That would make sense if it were true.

[mister krabs]

Thanks all, I'm familiar with the campmor bags and their effectiveness and with kids and their needs. I have both a campmor and a kid. I usually use the campmor bag and let the kid use my lafuma 950 pro (750 down 15 degree rating) The campmor bag has kept me warm with heavy frost on the surface of it, the lafuma is a true 20* bag. I'm looking for a 3+ season bag for georgia use, and the campmor has been perfectly adequate for my needs. I know that it would be perfectly adequate for the use that this scout is likely to see. The kelty looks to be of similar functionality.

Kids get cheap gear because they destroy everything they touch. Just this past weekend in the nantahala NF I was watching my pretty darn experienced 10 year old son take the tent down, something that we had done together dozens of times. I had to make sure that he looked at what he was doing as he folded the poles. Had to tell him twice so that he didn't bend the pole by accident. Looking the other way while they do things is something that kids just do, like not cleaning your muddy feet when you get into the bag or sleeping with your pocket knife. This combined with the limited number of bag nights that a busy kid gets makes a 125$ sleeping bag the exact right thing. I expect it to last until he's old enough to buy his own.

[mister krabs]

Instead, get them high quality gear and teach them how to use it. Instead of tarps, a group could have 4 to a North Face VE25 and each could hump the different parts to cut weight---poles, fly, tent body, stakes, etc. Much better than a tarp.

But who wants to spend $600 on a sleeping bag for a kid or $500 for a tent? There's the rub.

That's the thing Tipi, I'm not into getting cheap garbage gear. I want something that will be "good enough" to allow them to safely and comfortably have the fun and learn the lessons that a good scouting experience can provide. A $100 campmor (or kelty or REI) down bag is good enough for me, it will be good enough for them. Are there compromises? Absolutely, but I make them with knowledge of what they are. An alps extreme outfitter would get them a bomb-proof tent at 90 percent of the functionality with almost identical specs of the NF you cite (it lacks one pole and pole sleeves, otherwise identical room, pole size, fabric specs), but at 30% of the cost. It's a matter of appropriateness, making intelligent compromises that adequately address risk and balance budget for a given activity.