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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    Other hikers want electricity? Are they nuts? Just stay at home then and sleep in the carport. This project is a good example of the Engineer mentality in full bloom.
    engineers would realize the rediculousness of electricity at shelters. this is bad design in full bloom.

  2. #42
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    Boot Dryers! that's what we need at each shelter!
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

  3. #43
    Registered User Bags4266's Avatar
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    Side plastic windows, very simple not expensive

  4. #44
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swjohnsey View Post
    There are already a couple of shelters with electrical outlets . . . of course they ain't connected to anything.
    yea but they could be ...Pennies on the $
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    Over the years of sectioning I saw several overly complex architectural masterpieces that looked great but werent particularly usesful. One of the shleters off of the Blue ridge parkway was quite and impressive building ....
    I'm guessing you might mean Bryant Ridge Shelter. Yes, impressive. I stayed there and loved it.

    Thanks for the survey, OP. Food for thought, even if some ride their hobby horses.

    RainMan

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    Last edited by Rain Man; 10-02-2012 at 21:15.
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  6. #46
    Registered User turtle fast's Avatar
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    Shelter design that decreases regular service needs is great as well as using durable materials. Some of the stone sided shelters looked like they would last a hundred years and some of the cinder block shelters built in the 60s looked solid. The stone sided shelters made of locally sourced rock were more pleasing to the eye than cinder block or plywood shelters, though realizing that this type of stone building takes a lot of volunteer hours to build and why good design would be necessary.

  7. #47
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    A good idea that unfortunately didnt pan out was the MATC concept of installing translucent panels in the roofs of shelters. It really brightened up the interiors, unfortunately the plastic got brittle after a couple of years and the roof leaked. They have been replacing the translucent panels with steel for a couple years.

  8. #48
    Registered User Bags4266's Avatar
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    Yes I would not want any holes in the roof due to leaks. However, I was at a new shelter in the whites recently that had translucent panel on a side wall. Its amazing on how much brighter it made the shelter.

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    too many freakin prissys out there want it their way. look, just 3 walls and a roof. no floor. dirt, the way it was originally intended. if the roof leaks, stick a branch in it. windows, really? listen, it does not matter what is done to improve the shelters. people are going to destroy them. it happens fast too. ignorance and irresponsibility and time are why some shelters are in poor shape. there should be a survey on improving ignorance, irresponsibility. too many freakin pansy prissy britches running up and down the A.T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snifur View Post
    too many freakin prissys out there want it their way. Look, just 3 walls and a roof. No floor. Dirt, the way it was originally intended. If the roof leaks, stick a branch in it. Windows, really? Listen, it does not matter what is done to improve the shelters. People are going to destroy them. It happens fast too. Ignorance and irresponsibility and time are why some shelters are in poor shape. There should be a survey on improving ignorance, irresponsibility. Too many freakin pansy prissy britches running up and down the a.t.
    :d..............

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by snifur View Post
    listen, it does not matter what is done to improve the shelters. people are going to destroy them. it happens fast too.
    If this were only true. Destroyed shelters? And yet they still exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snifur View Post
    too many freakin prissys out there want it their way. ... too many freakin pansy prissy britches running up and down the A.T.
    ... and sitting at their keyboards, wanting everyone to hike it all their way? There's plenty of dirt and plenty of trail without shelters for those who don't want to avail themselves. No need for anyone to call names, whine, or snivel.

    Rain Man

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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by snifur View Post
    listen, it does not matter what is done to improve the shelters. people are going to destroy them. it happens fast too.
    No kidding. It's really discouraging when you and your hiking club put in all the effort to raise money, get all the bureaucratic paperwork done and approved, buy the materials, organize the work crews, and etc to build a new shelter or replace/repair an existing shelter, then clueless dip-**** hikers come along and carve their names into the wood, write juvenile graffiti everywhere, tear up bunks and tables for firewood, leave trash everywhere, and generally show they have no respect for the effort you expended on their behalf.
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    Monkeywrench, i feel for ya. plus 1 on your comment and that my friend is the point. well said.

  15. #55

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    Yes, I agree with Monkeywrench and snifur... But that't the way of the world. Architects (in training) might be able to design shelters that address this prob. all these things are useful info... remain optimistic for the OP. As hikers what do you want the shelters to look like, provide etc...dream big or keep it simple- whatever...

    I would like a shelter to:

    -Provide protection from bad weather- be able to withstand lightening strikes and blow downs.
    -Provide natural light
    -Provide a sheltered place to build a fire in cold weather (design the fireplace to be self contained in regard to smoke and stray sparks) Also, design them to allow for drying wet clothing.
    -Build the shelter out of a material that is highly resistant to destructive forces such as ones already mentioned. (human destruction )
    -When choosing the material for letting in natural light make sure it is resistant to fogging and natural things "growing" on it. (like moss etc..)
    -Lots of hooks for hanging packs and places to keep hiking boots, off the shelter floor. Design the boot holders for optimal drying purposes.

    I like the 3 sides and a roof design, don't change that.
    Having an enclosed privy is nice with lots of natural light.

    I believe in keeping the shelters simple but well built with a lot of thought & design put into the material of the structures. I think we need to keep the shelters as a safe haven along the trail but not too much of a "crutch" so that we still feel like we can survive with everything we need on our back for a while in the woods. For those who appreciate shelters, we like them for all the things they represent to us, personally.

    I'm sure I could think of other things but that's it for now... good luck with the project!!

  16. #56
    Registered User turtle fast's Avatar
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    I was always dismayed to see graffiti on the walls of shelters, did not your parents or parent raise you right? I yelled at a kid once for attempting to carve on a wall of a shelter, he looked at me as if he had never been yelled at before. I feel for the trail clubs and members like Monkeywrench who pour blood, sweat, and tears into these projects and see wanton destruction of property. For every one idiot, you have hundreds whom do not destroy or alter a shelter...unfortunately you never hear from them.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeywrench View Post
    No kidding. It's really discouraging when you and your hiking club put in all the effort to raise money, get all the bureaucratic paperwork done and approved, buy the materials, organize the work crews, and etc to build a new shelter or replace/repair an existing shelter, then clueless dip-**** hikers come along and carve their names into the wood, write juvenile graffiti everywhere, tear up bunks and tables for firewood, leave trash everywhere, and generally show they have no respect for the effort you expended on their behalf.
    Quote Originally Posted by HikerMomKD View Post

    I would like a shelter to:

    -Provide protection from bad weather- be able to withstand lightening strikes and blow downs.
    -Provide natural light
    -Provide a sheltered place to build a fire in cold weather (design the fireplace to be self contained in regard to smoke and stray sparks) Also, design them to allow for drying wet clothing.
    -Build the shelter out of a material that is highly resistant to destructive forces such as ones already mentioned. (human destruction )
    -When choosing the material for letting in natural light make sure it is resistant to fogging and natural things "growing" on it. (like moss etc..)
    -Lots of hooks for hanging packs and places to keep hiking boots, off the shelter floor. Design the boot holders for optimal drying purposes.

    I like the 3 sides and a roof design, don't change that.
    Having an enclosed privy is nice with lots of natural light.
    Wow, you guys need to re-evaluate your connection to backpacking and to the woods. For the hiking clubs, I say don't bother keeping the 70 year old system of AT shelters alive---we've done it for 70 years, let's try 70 years without shelters to balance it out. I think hiking clubs would be better off dismantling all the shelters and letting the "clueless dip-**** hikers" fend for themselves. Why not? It works on the BMT and in the Cohutta and Big Frog wilderness areas, and it works in Dolly Sods and for most of the Mt Rogers and Snowbird backcountry.

    I guess for some backpackers the security teat of the quasi-Indoor Life still appeals, thus the need for protection and comfort as repesented by the man-made edifice of a trail shelter. But the last thing some of us want to see is another rat box and human cleverness-induced carport as we've seen enough Rat Boxes in town and at home and on the drive to the trailhead. Backpackers who drool over shelters are sort of like RV drivers who call what they do Camping.

  18. #58

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    I respect your opinion about the way you view your way of backpacking but I don't like being compared to RV drivers who call what they do camping. Or one that drools over shelters being called Rat boxes. I can understand your view point- no problem. But when you insult others when they don't line up with your way of thinking, then, that's a real problem for me, with you, when you say those things about me and others. You can respectfully disagree but leave off the insulting statements....please. I'm saying this to you in the kindest possible way. Thanks in advance for your consideration.

  19. #59
    Registered User Monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    Wow, you guys need to re-evaluate your connection to backpacking and to the woods. For the hiking clubs, I say don't bother keeping the 70 year old system of AT shelters alive---we've done it for 70 years, let's try 70 years without shelters to balance it out. I think hiking clubs would be better off dismantling all the shelters and letting the "clueless dip-**** hikers" fend for themselves. Why not? It works on the BMT and in the Cohutta and Big Frog wilderness areas, and it works in Dolly Sods and for most of the Mt Rogers and Snowbird backcountry.

    I guess for some backpackers the security teat of the quasi-Indoor Life still appeals, thus the need for protection and comfort as repesented by the man-made edifice of a trail shelter. But the last thing some of us want to see is another rat box and human cleverness-induced carport as we've seen enough Rat Boxes in town and at home and on the drive to the trailhead. Backpackers who drool over shelters are sort of like RV drivers who call what they do Camping.
    Not sure who you are including in "you guys", but count me out. It's been a number of years since I've slept in a shelter as I prefer swinging in my hammock out in the fresh air. But as a member of a maintaining club (Connecticut Section of the Green Mountain Club) that is responsible for 12 miles of the AT / LT in Vermont and 2 (until recently it was 3) shelters, repairing damage inflicted by selfish people over and over again gets old fast.

    I personally agree that the trail would be better with fewer shelters, but they are a long and much-beloved tradition and not likely to go away anytime soon. Maybe someday.
    ~~
    Allen "Monkeywrench" Freeman
    NOBO 3-18-09 - 9-27-09
    blog.allenf.com
    allen@allenf.com
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  20. #60
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    Earl Shaffer and grandma gatewood and tons of other people didn't need that crap and neither do we. If you're on the trail you are there for a reason. If you need electricity and hot running water stay in gatlinburg and stick to day hikes
    can't never did

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