latest news about changes for Thru-hikers in the Smokies.

[Different Socks]

From the NPS Appalachian Trail National Scenic Trail website:
http://www.nps.gov/appa/planyourvisi...servations.htm
Fees & Reservations

ENTRANCE FEE: The Appalachian Trail is free for all to enjoy. No fees, memberships, or permits are required to walk on the Trail. However, the A.T. passes through numerous state and national parks, forests and public lands, a few of which charge fees or require permits or reservations to park or to stay overnight in shelters or campsites. Below is a list of where some permits and fees are charged. OVERNIGHT PERMITS AND FEES: Great Smoky Mountains National Park (Tennessee/North Carolina) - A permit must be obtained before entering the park. There is a self-registration facility at the Fontana Dam visitor center. Forms and a deposit box are also available at the "Fontana Hilton" for northbounders. Southbounders - you can get a permit at Bluff Mountain Outfitters in Hot Springs, or 1.3 miles east on Tenn. 32 from Davenport Gap at the Big Creek Ranger Station. Section-hikers (considered to be anyone not beginning and ending a hike at least 50 miles outside the park) can make reservations by calling GSMNP Reservations Office at (865) 436-1231. Anyone caught without a permit will be issued a $125 ticket! Shelter Policy - Park regulations require that you stay in a shelter. While other backpackers must make reservations to use backcountry shelters, thru-hikers are exempt. From Mar. 15 to June 15, four spaces at each A.T. shelter are reserved for thru-hikers. If the shelter is full, thru-hikers can tent close by. Only thru-hikers are allowed to tent next to shelters, so they are responsible for making room for those who have reservations in the shelters. There are overnight permits & Fees for Shenandoah National Park (Virginia), Green Mountain National Forest/Green Mountain Club (Vermont) , White Mountain National Forest/Appalachian Mountain Club (New Hampshire) and Baxter State Park (Maine) Tumbleweed

So if 4 spaces are for thru hikers that don't need a reservation, and say 3--4 other spots are taken by additional thru hikers and then some weekend person shows up and says he/she made a reservation for a spot, would it be wrong to ask them to provide proof before you have to give up your spot as a thru hiker and sleep on the ground?

[rickb]

So if 4 spaces are for thru hikers that don't need a reservation, and say 3--4 other spots are taken by additional thru hikers and then some weekend person shows up and says he/she made a reservation for a spot, would it be wrong to ask them to provide proof before you have to give up your spot as a thru hiker and sleep on the ground?

Of course not. Best done in a friendly way, though.

[Tipi Walter]

This is a very significant development as, for the first time I am aware of in its history, the AT will no longer be free to use. It also sets a very bad precedent for other management agencies that control access to the AT. I can see the day when every nat'l park, state park, nat'l forest, and wildlife management area through which the trail passes will levy fees and have its own permitting procedures that will make a through-hike a burden financially (as if funding a through-hike is "cheap" now) and cumbersome logistically.

I've been saying this all along. People who are for the fees are in a state of Acquiescence and don't see their rule fervor as setting a bad precedent for further fee increases along the AT. Will the fee lovers be as gleeful when the entire AT charges $5 per night for every overnighter on the trail?

Fees are likely necessary with the tremendous use the park gets and the tight budgets the parks face.
But again, many thru hikers are notorious for the give me, I deserve it, attitude. Still there is hope of compliance - they are only two weeks into their thru hike when they reach the Smokies, so the attitude isn't perfected yet. By the Whites, it is.

This is a strange comment since the "tremendous use" the park gets is mostly in cars which are not charged and have unlimited access to the Park, the most air polluted park in the country. Weird, ain't it?

National parks require entrance fees because they don't receive enough funding to operate without them. If you don't want to pay fees, vote for higher taxes.

The GSMNP does not have an entrance fee. Why not? Why focus on overnight backpackers and not a $20 fee for every car and motorcycle entering the Park?

WOW i was unaware of the NO FEES FOR CARS AGREEMENT. If that is the case it is absolutely WRONG to charge a hiker to use a trail that runs through the park. I am not sure and maybe some one can correct me if I am wrong, but does nt trail clubs maintain the trails and shelters. What is the fees for?

You've got the right headgear on---Yes there's a No Fee For Cars agreement. Charging just backpackers IS wrong.

Just avoid the park, especially if you are section hiking. I found it very over-rated. Not really anything better than you see for miles on either side of the park. Not a popular opinion, but I wouldn't pay to go back.

I've been saying this all along too. Go to the Cohuttas or Big Frog, get on the BMT from Georgia to the Park, go to the Mt Rogers backcountry, go to Shining Rock, check out all the trails in the Pisgah or Cherokee or Jefferson or Nantahala or Chattahoochee national forests, go into the Snowbird backcountry. There are millions of acres available for backpacking with no fees or permits or vouchers or provisios or affidavits or attestations or warrants or subpoenas or injunctions or decrees or mandates or summons or what the heck ever else the nanny Tent Police have up their sleeves to curtail access to our god-given Lands.

[Hill Ape]

tipi is right on, this fee will spread to the other parks, and they will only increase over time. just watch it happen, theres really nothing you can do to stop it. its inevitable, in twenty years, it'll cost, every mile, every campsite.

i'm waiting for park management to be contracted out to for profit corporations, don't kid yourselves, it will happen.

[MuddyWaters]

tipi is right on, this fee will spread to the other parks, and they will only increase over time. just watch it happen, theres really nothing you can do to stop it. its inevitable, in twenty years, it'll cost, every mile, every campsite.

i'm waiting for park management to be contracted out to for profit corporations, don't kid yourselves, it will happen.

I think yall got it backwards.
It already exists at other parks.
It finally spread to this one.

Grand Canyon - yep
Rocky Mtn Natl Park - yep
Carlsbad Caverns - yep
Yellowstone - yep
Black Canyon of the Gunnison - yep
Big Bend - yep

Most national parks and monuments out west - yep

In most of these places you have to pay $15-25 just to drive in.

[Hill Ape]

indeed, i was talking only about the AT, none of that is news to me

[alxflwrs]

how many people do you think are on the trail checking passes?
i'll probably not pay in protest and try to just ninja stealth hike thru the park in a couple nights.
does that sound too bad/

[Tipi Walter]

I think yall got it backwards.
It already exists at other parks.
It finally spread to this one.

Grand Canyon - yep
Rocky Mtn Natl Park - yep
Carlsbad Caverns - yep
Yellowstone - yep
Black Canyon of the Gunnison - yep
Big Bend - yep

Most national parks and monuments out west - yep

In most of these places you have to pay $15-25 just to drive in.

So let's charge 20 bucks a car going into the Smokies. I'm all for it. Or close the roads.

[SawnieRobertson]

how many people do you think are on the trail checking passes?
i'll probably not pay in protest and try to just ninja stealth hike thru the park in a couple nights.
does that sound too bad/

Some, though seasoned, cannot make the distance in seven days, particularly if carrying food for seven days. I am one of those. Still, we must realize that, when we break the rules deliberately, the NPS categorizes our actions as being the actions of all thruhikers. Unfortunately, when signing up with them not as a thru, we have to get permits that specify which shelter we will be at on which night. It surely takes the fun out of the whole thing, doesn't it.--Kinnickinic

[NinjaFace]

Part of UN Agenda 21 ?

[MuddyWaters]

Some, though seasoned, cannot make the distance in seven days, particularly if carrying food for seven days. I am one of those. Still, we must realize that, when we break the rules deliberately, the NPS categorizes our actions as being the actions of all thruhikers. Unfortunately, when signing up with them not as a thru, we have to get permits that specify which shelter we will be at on which night. It surely takes the fun out of the whole thing, doesn't it.--Kinnickinic

I dont think its uncommon to run into a ridgerunner/caretaker/park employee during thru-hiker season.

Much of the rest of the year, aside from thru hiker season, no one pays a lot of attention to it because shelters arent over-crowded.
You make reservations that are conservative, then if you can get a phone signal and there is room ahead, you can move them forward.
Or some do just take their chances.

It will never come up , unless a shelter is overfull of people all claiming to have reservations.

[Duramax22]

I dont mind paying the $20. the thing that worries me is, will this extra money actually be kept in gsmnp and not floated to another park or even worse to the federal government because i have a terrible feeling that through federal BS it will be shipped away.

[Just a Hiker]

Some folks have asked about the Senior Pass, so now I have a question. I have the Lifetime Access Pass for all National Parks and Federal Recreation areas, so does this mean I'll have to pay as well, or is this something they haven't ironed out yet? I'll pay the $20 if I have to....just thought someone might know.

[alxflwrs]

If you have a Lifetime Access Pass I think it is the nature of the program that is is FREE for those who qualify. If I were you I would especially not get one. I hate to be "that guy" and make a bad name for thru-hikers everywhere--but if they're going to generalize my actions to everyone elses thats their hang up...not mine. I'll take my chances on getting in trouble...I need some extra thrill on the trail.

[Hill Ape]

i don't think they've ironed anything out yet, this first year will be a steep learning curve, expect some growing pains. vibe i'm getting is work with them they will work with you. what is said this year, may or may not apply next year. once they've identified and clarified all the what ifs, things will smooth out. until then, have $20, maybe a little more, set aside. have 7 days, but everybody be flexible. all these folks on the internet, are not who you're going to face when the time comes to pay up. thru hikers are not the only park users, GASP!! and we're not the most important park users. GSMP is trying to implement a new system for all backcountry users, thats no small task. just play it by ear.

[Don H]

U.S. citizens 62 or older can purchase a $10 lifetime Senior Pass. http://www.doi.gov/tourists/get-a-pass.cfm

If you qualify this seems like the way to go.
I'd like to see what happens the first time they stop a senior with one of these passes that didn't pay the fee.

[max patch]

Seems clear to me that the Senior Pass isn't going to let you get off the hook for paying the $20 max reservation fee.

[max patch]

[FONT=Verdana]U.S. citizens 62 or older can purchase a $10 lifetime Senior Pass. http://www.doi.gov/tourists/get-a-pass.cfm

If you qualify this seems like the way to go.
I'd like to see what happens the first time they stop a senior with one of these passes that didn't pay the fee. [/fineFONT]

Well, the reservation they are trying to make will be voided when they don't complete the payment screen. So what happens would be whatever happens to someone they catch camping illegally - a fine.

[jbwood5]

Seems clear to me that the Senior Pass isn't going to let you get off the hook for paying the $20 max reservation fee.

I'd say you will be correct on this point, but there is a chance it might be half price. For seniors with that pass (and I'm one of them), camping is often 50% of the stated price in National Parks and National Forests.

[hikehunter]

I was in the GSMNP in July 2012 at Ice Water shelter....we had reservation for 8 hikers doing a 4 day hike....the shelter is rated for 12... there wer 14 in the shelter and two guys on the ground out front. the two guys were thru hikers that I have seen on youtube....the two that over filled the shelter were not thru hikers and had no reservation. there were three guys that came and left at sunset for the next north bound shelter... as I walked with them to Charles Bunion they said it was over crowded like all the others they came to in the park from Fontana. they were only going to harpers....
As a section hiker I will help make room for any hiker along the trail....as for the fees it is something that will keep the parks open and keep the costs lower than some mass tax to fund them....