There is a new petition out that might interest us.

[AjR]

So I scrolling through petitions on wethepeople, and I found this one. What are your thoughts? I think they should set aside specific areas for this reason alone. Love to hear the replies, let me know!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...7Q#thank-you=p

[tdoczi]

bad idea. there are limits on the number of people who can camp at 1 spot for a reason. would you be in favor of this applying to say... the below the rim campgrounds at the grand canyon? holy cow what a nightmare that would produce.

anyone who shows up at a place requiring reservations that is known to frequently fill up hoping to just be allowed to stay needs to get themselves a clue.

[oldbear]

I think that it's a great idea : I think I'll sign it
This is unrealistic=>." . would you be in favor of this applying to say... the below the rim campgrounds at the grand canyon? holy cow what a nightmare that would produce"
Not only do I have my bootprints all over the inside of the Canyon But I also used to live less than an hour from the S.Rim
It's almost impossible to arrive at any of the three entrance stations in GCNP by non machine means and even if you did manage to cycle up there you would camp out for free in the Kaibab National Forest which surrounds the part of GCNP that's accessible from paved roads rather than use the 5 CGs in the Park

[AjR]

bad idea. there are limits on the number of people who can camp at 1 spot for a reason. would you be in favor of this applying to say... the below the rim campgrounds at the grand canyon? holy cow what a nightmare that would produce.

anyone who shows up at a place requiring reservations that is known to frequently fill up hoping to just be allowed to stay needs to get themselves a clue.

I wasn't stating expanding camp grounds, or making new ones, simply setting aside a few spots for hikers. I understand that this would make people unhappy, but everyone deserves a fair chance, even if you choose to hike.

[Rocket Jones]

I wasn't stating expanding camp grounds, or making new ones, simply setting aside a few spots for hikers. I understand that this would make people unhappy, but everyone deserves a fair chance, even if you choose to hike.

Ahhh, so it's fair to reduce the number of sites available to people who know how to make reservations just in case hikers show up? Fair is overrated.

[magic_game03]

pandora's box, for the very reason tdoczi mentions, over use. the only reason for a reservation system is because too many people want to crowd into some popular spot or area. if you create a backdoor... then everybody and their brother 'n sister will try to use some excuse to backdoor-it. Also, if you're too lazy to reserve a spot, hike on, or stealth it (and take a chance) then don't come crying to me about some petition.

[Different Socks]

There is a park that does this: Yosemite. If you arrive on foot, there is a separate area across a creek away from all the car campers that a backpacker can use.

[Different Socks]

Castle Crags along the PCT does this also.

[AjR]

pandora's box, for the very reason tdoczi mentions, over use. the only reason for a reservation system is because too many people want to crowd into some popular spot or area. if you create a backdoor... then everybody and their brother 'n sister will try to use some excuse to backdoor-it. Also, if you're too lazy to reserve a spot, hike on, or stealth it (and take a chance) then don't come crying to me about some petition.

It's not necessarily in my opinion, about creating a backdoor for people to take advantage. In my opinion, it would be about giving those hikers on the trail a chance at a spot that is either closer, or where they want to stay over those who drive in. As far as the reservation system for that, like I said, you could set aside a limited number of spots. Then make it first come, first serve. It's not always about being lazy or trying to cheat the system, it's about trying to give those who choose another way a chance when competing against those who would prefer to drive in. And we're not coming to you "crying" with some petition, I just thought it would make good conversation. I believe those that can't state their opinions without insulting others are best left to keep their mouths shut.

[AjR]

Ahhh, so it's fair to reduce the number of sites available to people who know how to make reservations just in case hikers show up? Fair is overrated.

Things happen when you hike. One hike I did, we got rained out, in a very dangerous thunderstorm/flash flood situation. Fair is overrated if a hiker knew how to make reservations ended up with some kind of set back, and missed that reservation, even if they did take all the precautions and leave early and such.

[Hill Ape]

against a systemwide rule, some park environments are more fragile than other parks... and it speaks to a lack of planning on the hikers part

that said, there is a thing called stealth hiking.... guilty

[rjjones]

Maybe its a"Jones" thing but theres that word again.FAIR.Its fair to have the freedom to make your own preperations..

[tdoczi]

I wasn't stating expanding camp grounds, or making new ones, simply setting aside a few spots for hikers. I understand that this would make people unhappy, but everyone deserves a fair chance, even if you choose to hike.

how exactly is it unfair to say that a campground requires reservations and once all the spots have been reserved no one else can stay? also, how exactly is it fair to say to people who are trying to make a reservation "no, you cant have that spot, we need to reserve in case someone who couldnt be bothered planning ahead decides to show up."

i can tell you from experience that in an emergency (and i use the term VERY loosely) if you spoke to the ranger at the campsite and explained your situation youd most likely be allowed to stay if there was no better option. making it policy that you can just show up and expect a spot is silly. and what happens when all of those spots that are set aside are filled up?

i'm going to go out on a limb and guess this petition was started by.... let me think for a second... you?

[Half Note]

The point is moot. The "petition" will never get close to 25K signatures to even get considered to be placed in a position to possibly enter the bill process.

[swjohnsey]

It's a lot easier to figure out where you will be next week or next month when you are travelin' by car.

[garlic08]

I won't sign something I don't understand. Read the last paragraph. What's that word, "herpetitiontion"?

[HikerMom58]

how exactly is it unfair to say that a campground requires reservations and once all the spots have been reserved no one else can stay? also, how exactly is it fair to say to people who are trying to make a reservation "no, you cant have that spot, we need to reserve in case someone who couldnt be bothered planning ahead decides to show up."

i can tell you from experience that in an emergency (and i use the term VERY loosely) if you spoke to the ranger at the campsite and explained your situation youd most likely be allowed to stay if there was no better option. making it policy that you can just show up and expect a spot is silly. and what happens when all of those spots that are set aside are filled up?

i'm going to go out on a limb and guess this petition was started by.... let me think for a second... you?

i'm going to go out on a limb and guess this petition was started by.... let me think for a second... you?[/QUOTE]

I think you are going out on a limb....

I like the idea... Sure- why not? I think it would work as well as all other "policies" do... there's always an up and down side to everything.

[oldbear]

OK
Here's the text of the petition
WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:

Require the National Park Service to allow camping to all self-propelled visitors even if campground is full.

The National Park Service (NPS) currently do not permit a Park to allow additional overnight visitors if the campground is full.
Self-propelled visitors (SPV), a person arriving by foot, bicycle, canoe, or other mode of movement NOT utilizing a motorized vehicle, frequently arrive after the park campground has sold out. The vast majority of the SPV use a small tent. If a campground is sold out, a SPV may not be able to travel to the next available campground before dark.
Whereas a SPV visitor using a tent takes up very little space and has little environmental impact, we herpetitiontion the Federal Government to require the NPS to always allow SPV a place to legally camp for one night even if the campground is considered full."
And here's the obvious question
How many of our National Parks meet the standard of having designated campgrounds and being accessible by SPVs ?
As I'm going thru my mental list of the many NPs that i've been to I'm realizing that there are only a very small amount of NP's that can meet that criteria and the amount of visitors who arrive by SPVs is even smaller still

[Pedaling Fool]

I write my congressional reps (house and senate) a good number of times, but I'd never bother them with this issue. Regardless if I'm on a bike or hiking trip, I just pull over to the side, there's plenty of camping spots. I don't need no freakin' campgrounds.

[moytoy]

I write my congressional reps (house and senate) a good number of times, but I'd never bother them with this issue. Regardless if I'm on a bike or hiking trip, I just pull over to the side, there's plenty of camping spots. I don't need no freakin' campgrounds.

I was sitting here thinking exactly the same thing JG. How often is it that a hiker want's or needs to stay in a car camp ground anyway?