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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    There is something called being on the "stupid side of light". I've been there a few times. Shaved my gear down to pure minimum. It was a delight to carry such a small load. On the second day of the Landmannalaugar hike in Iceland the storm hit. 40mph winds blowing heavy rain at 2degrees C. Had just a light raincoat, got drenched. Didn't have enough warm clothes. Dark approached. Passed a monument to an Israeli hiker who had died (in a similar storm, I was later told). Began shivering uncontrollably. Well, I (and 9 others) reached a hut and the caretaker nursed us back to full body temperature. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here.

    Stupid has nothing to do with being light, it has everything to do with being unprepared for reasonable conditions.
    You can carry a 50 lb pack and still not have raingear or warm clothing or a plan B.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffmeh View Post
    I would actually love to hear the ultralight enthusiast's packing list for going on one of Walter's trips, and Walter's packing list for doing an AT NOBO starting in mid-march, with a finish within 6 months. Then we could compare and contrast the approaches when faced with the same problems.
    You cant do that kind of extended trip , in those conditions, in a UL fashion.
    Walter appears to seek out the worst conditions, and intentionally get himself stranded for a week or more, because he is equipped to deal with it.
    He thrives on pushing that boundary. Mastering conditions that would be deadly to poorly prepared people.
    At least thats my impression from reading a few of his trail reports.

    To be out there safely for 3 wks in the conditions he sees, you would need most of what he carries.
    Id leave the 10 lbs of books at home though, a Kindle would be lighter.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    You cant do that kind of extended trip , in those conditions, in a UL fashion.
    Walter appears to seek out the worst conditions, and intentionally get himself stranded for a week or more, because he is equipped to deal with it.
    He thrives on pushing that boundary. Mastering conditions that would be deadly to poorly prepared people.
    At least thats my impression from reading a few of his trail reports.

    To be out there safely for 3 wks in the conditions he sees, you would need most of what he carries.
    Id leave the 10 lbs of books at home though, a Kindle would be lighter.
    That is really my point. These too heavy / too light arguments are pretty silly, given that each side has a very different set of objectives and is going out under very different conditions.

  4. #44
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    Anyone that spends any time online comparing dental setups and weights for hiking is a loser and better never come near my daughters. Read those posts. Idiots

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    You cant do that kind of extended trip , in those conditions, in a UL fashion.
    Walter appears to seek out the worst conditions, and intentionally get himself stranded for a week or more, because he is equipped to deal with it.
    He thrives on pushing that boundary. Mastering conditions that would be deadly to poorly prepared people.
    At least thats my impression from reading a few of his trail reports.

    To be out there safely for 3 wks in the conditions he sees, you would need most of what he carries.
    Id leave the 10 lbs of books at home though, a Kindle would be lighter.
    It's not so much that I seek out the worst conditions, it's just that on a long uninterrupted trip these conditions eventually come to me, especially if I stay at 5,000 feet or above, and especially in the winter. Sometimes I do get "stranded" but I don't think of it as such and instead figure I'm the luckiest guy in the world to be living in a snowglobe shook by Miss Nature. When she settles down I start moving again.

    "Mastering conditions" is a little out of proportion although after years of living in the Southeast mountains I sort of know what to expect. Knowing what to expect is a good thing and takes away "surprises"---the bane of backpacking. Backpackers as a rule try to avoid surprises---and epic failures (hypothermia, collapsed shelters, wet gear, getting lost) are usually due to unwanted surprises. I've whittled the surprise element down quite a bit over the years but I'd never call it Mastering anything. Staying humble in the woods is a much better mindset.

  6. #46

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    Wow, I started a whole new thread with my name on it and didn't even know I did it.
    It's been split out just for you. Enjoy.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
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    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  8. #48

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    I like the new system.

  9. #49
    Registered User WILLIAM HAYES's Avatar
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    each to his own comfort zone I did the 100 mile wilderness with a 35 lbs pack weight and was very comfortable

  10. #50
    Coach Lou coach lou's Avatar
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    When I found this site last year, I had dug out all my old gear and got back to walking. I read all this stuff here and naturally want to lighten the load, to give my old joints a break. I have been replaceing stuff with newer lighter stuff. BUT.....am I happy? I just had a conversation with Hikerboy about winter camping. 'Mainely' about the early dark and long nite. It started me thinking about my early nites this past weekend. I was thinking that I abandoned my old candle lantern that I use to read by, my headlamp is not comfortable to read by and you worry about killing the battery.....anyway, I have left it home in the UL direction. Next hike I'm bringing it. With the help of the WB, I've been able to get my base weight down to the mid 30's, so I figure I can start to carry it again, maybe a spare candle 'just in case'.
    Last edited by coach lou; 12-01-2012 at 23:55.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    This number is just part of the equation. Let's say you're out for 15 days w/o resupply. Add 30 lbs of food, 1 lb of water and ZAP you've got 50 lbs. Now add your winter kit and maybe a four season tent and oh throw in a couple books and extra batteries.

    *Thread was split from Thinking Ultralight
    Even with lots of food, nay, especially with a lot of food and water, the weight of gear is important.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Stupid has nothing to do with being light, it has everything to do with being unprepared for reasonable conditions.
    You can carry a 50 lb pack and still not have raingear or warm clothing or a plan B.
    Agreed. Stupid is stupid and is done at any weight.

  13. #53
    LT '79; AT '73-'14 in sections; Donating Member Kerosene's Avatar
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    I love the title of this newly spawned thread, "Heavy Thinking with Tipi Walter"! It reminds me of the late evening radio shows with a low, dulcet-voiced host dedicating love songs to his call-in audience, "Deep Thoughts with Jon Tesh" or some such show.
    GA←↕→ME: 1973 to 2014

  14. #54

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    30 lbs of food for 15 days, thats a lot of food.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    I'm beyond changing. My point is that the Fast & Light groupthink is in part an advertising campaign trying to change everyone else.
    Confession time: I bought into the general lightweight marketing trend with a recent purchase of hiking boots touted to be the lightweight backpacker's answer to mid-high boots KNOWING I have weak ankles. I bought them on the premise you could hike faster, lighter, less foot fatigue, etc. and still have ankle support. Made sure they properly fitted, yada yada yada. I haven't had a sprained ankle in 15 years, wearing the more traditional type hiking boots. First day hike, 3 miles in, on an extremely easy downhill, I sprained my ankle the worst I've ever done. Although properly laced, the "lightweight" mesh and fabric around the ankle offered no resistance to my ankle turning inside the boot. I then promptly twisted the other ankle 5 minutes later. After looking at them more critically, I realized that the "high tops" are no more than a glorified sneaker with a inch or so more of material and a couple extra lace points. Both my regular doctor and an orthopedic specialist have told me to ignore the marketing hype and stick with the old school type boots with real ankle support. The homicidal boots are going back to REI as soon as the swelling goes down, and I've sent my old boots to be resoled.

    (I don't mean for this to evolve into a boots thread, so PM me if you want to know the style/brand.)

  16. #56
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter
    Resupplying every 4 days is not my idea of a "wilderness backpacking trip." I go out to get away from roads and cars and stores and folding money---give me a few good books and some candles and alot of food and sayonatra for
    I am thinking that AT hikers choose to resupply far more frequently these days than in years gone by. I think some of that is driven by the desire to maintain the umbilical cord to plumbing and restaurant food, but also by the allergy to weight.

    Not sure how a grown man hiking 15 miles on the AT every day could get by on just 1.25 pound of food day in and day out without being pulled into town like bear to a pile of stale donuts.

    we are all different of course-- but less so than ever before.

  17. #57
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    Trail wreck,
    keep at it with the trail runners or lighter boots and I suspect you will find that your ankles, feet and leg get stronger and you will have less issues with turned ankles.

  18. #58
    Registered User Ewker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gg-man View Post
    Trail wreck,
    keep at it with the trail runners or lighter boots and I suspect you will find that your ankles, feet and leg get stronger and you will have less issues with turned ankles.

    you want him to take your advice over his 2 Doctors...really???
    Conquest: It is not the Mountain we conquer but Ourselves

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    I am thinking that AT hikers choose to resupply far more frequently these days than in years gone by. I think some of that is driven by the desire to maintain the umbilical cord to plumbing and restaurant food, but also by the allergy to weight.

    Not sure how a grown man hiking 15 miles on the AT every day could get by on just 1.25 pound of food day in and day out without being pulled into town like bear to a pile of stale donuts.

    we are all different of course-- but less so than ever before.
    Weight matters - I weigh 150 pounds so 1.25# to 1.5# of home dehyrdrated food is plenty for me. Get's to around 2500 calories. If I was 180 pounds at the same height I would need 3500 calories to do the same activity.

    This is based on an average of 100 calories per ounce which is easy to acheive for the 1.5# per day for me. To get to 1.25# the food would need to be 125 calories per ounce which requires more nuts than I can eat without problems or using fairly heavy amounts of olive oil.

  20. #60
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    Foot rotating within footwear sounds like the bad combination of a heel that's too thick and an upper that's not stiff enough. It may also be a matter of the heel cup not fitting correctly. With a low and less wide heel, a shoe rotating about the foot is unlikely to happen. This is a part of shoe education.

    Education is what this thread is about, or rather, a lack of it. I think Tipi is reacting to heavyweight backpackers being called stupid and inexperienced by turning around and calling lightweight backpackers stupid and inexperienced. Stupid is stupid.

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