Tarping it vs. ul Tent???

[mtnkngxt]

hey mtnkngxt - we seem to be on the same page again. This is pretty much the same way I wanted to go. I am seriously considering the Patrol Shelter. You say you could add a ground sheet if necessary, but I thought the bug bivy had an integrated bathtub floor. Is that not correct? Also, if bugs are not in season, can you lie on top of the netting and just use the bug bivy as a ground sheet? I was attracted to this option as it seems the Bug Bivy gives more head room than a traditional bivy. To get even more room, I was also considering the MLD Serenity Shelter instead. Anyone know how these would compare?

i suppose you could. Just remember the mesh Ron uses is really fine and if you tear it, well you'll end up with guests at your sleep over. The bivy does have a floor, but personally I prefer the bathtub floor of the zpacks Cuben ground sheet if there is a chance of heavy rain. Keeps my gear dry as well as keeping my sleep system dry.

I'm actually about to order a Zpacks Hexamid Solo this afternoon. Planning on using it on shorter "camping weekends" this spring and in the fall and then using it on my JMT Thru July of '14.

[Miner]

Also, would either of these (Bug Bivy or Serenity Shelter) work well as a ground sheet (lying on top of the net) for time when bug protection is not necessary?

You can do just that. The only issue I can see would be causing wear on the netting as your sleeping pad shifts around at night while on top of it. Not a problem for casual use, but may be an issue with long term use. I rarely use my bug bivy preferring my regular bivy except in the hottest weather, so it doesn't have much wear on it so I'm just guessing.

I'll mention this since I once had someone ask, to get outside of a MLD bug bivy when it's attached under your tarp: You unzip the top, reach up and unclip the line above your head so the bivy falls flat around you and thus you can crawl out. To get back in, you crawl in, reattach the clip, and zip it up. All MLD tarps have loops under them for hanging a bivy from them.

[aficion]

I love my tarp. I have woken up under it with a skunk on me. I still love it, but I'm going to get a Tarptent Notch when my budget allows.

[QiWiz]

Tarp requires that you develop the skills to pitch it correctly for the conditions, but would be my choice. I really like "shaped" tarps like the SMD Gatewood Cape, or the ZPacks hexamid. Very light, very weather-worthy.

[coach lou]

Pros:



Cons:




I think the biggest argument against using a tarp for 3-season hiking is the psychological aspect. Some people just plain don't like it, for whatever reason. They feel more comfortable enclosed inside a tent. I'll admit my first few times camping under a tarp after tenting my whole life I was like, "jeez you can just sleep out in the open like this?" It felt really weird.

I'd suggest picking up a blue hardware store tarp and trying it out to see if you like it before diving in, selling your tent and buying a fancy backpacking tarp.

This about covers it I think. I have only hiked with tarps since my Scouting days, we have 4/ 5 tents, but use them for car camping. I sling a USMC issue net under it, and when I need to use a shelter it keeps the mice off, and bugs.

[takethisbread]

I utilize all three shelters. I have a 22oz tarp . A 30 oz tent (flycreek1) and a Hennessy hammock. I use them all. I rarely use the tarp except in July and August . I use the tent most because the weight is similar and the ease to set up. But all three are used depending on situation

[Chaco Taco]

I'll probably always stick with a hybrid approach--tarptent. If you add a ground cloth to your tarp, which most do, and don't bring one if you use a tarptent, which I do, the weight difference gets less important--just a couple yards of netting. I've tried tarps and tents extensively, and I prefer tarptents. Bugs are the main reason, pitching time second. The last time I used a tarp during a desert windstorm, I woke up with scorpions. The previous night there were ants. For safety and sleep, I went with a sewn-in floor and zipper door and haven't looked back.

+1 on tarptents

[IcyHot]

I have to say I hated my Moment Tarp Tent. I traveled with it about 400 miles, from Springer Mt. to Damascus. Constant condensation no matter what setup I tried. I was going to get something to replace it for this summer's planned section, but I found out Henry now offers a liner, which I'm going to try out. Other than the condensation, I loved the ease of use and how lightweight the tt is.

[Chaco Taco]

I have to say I hated my Moment Tarp Tent. I traveled with it about 400 miles, from Springer Mt. to Damascus. Constant condensation no matter what setup I tried. I was going to get something to replace it for this summer's planned section, but I found out Henry now offers a liner, which I'm going to try out. Other than the condensation, I loved the ease of use and how lightweight the tt is.

So you hated it but love it . I used to be in the same boat with my Double Rainbow. The model I have is a snug fit for 2 of us, so its my solo. I improperly, seam sealed mine, and had a really bad experience with it the first couple of nights I had it out. The seam seal is the key. With that said, its the east and our climate is crazy wet, you will have to deal with it. Nothing wrong with the tent. I learned that the hard way. We float between a hubbaX2.
With that said, I think the one thing you hate about your HS tarptent can easily be remedied with a half of a shammy, and the liner HS offers. Reinforce your seam seal especially if you use the hell out of it. I have become a huge fan of these tarptents after hating them at first. I think we are going to try and work it so we can manage to use it as a 2 person on our colorado trip. Being out there will be perfect for tarptenting!

[turtle fast]

Ive been an advocate for tarps as compact and lightweight with skill to be also very multifunctional , but now I have switched to tarp tents. The problem is due to insect control...lets face it diseases by these insect vectors is no laughing matter....we did not have to worry about Lymes or West Nile Virus many years ago. Now its peace of mind and I don't have to worry about a mouse running across my lips in the middle of the night like I saw happen to a fellow hiker or wake up to a copperhead slithering into my bag because its warm.

[Tinker]

I use a tarp over my hammock. The main disadvantage of a tarp is that of "bucking" in the wind. It's much easier for the wind to get under a tarp (unless it's pitched right to the ground) than a tarptent or a tent. With either of these, the mesh attaching the fly to the floor will limit the motion of the bucking. Without it, the tarp is free to move unrestricted except by however many guy lines are attached to it. Add the guy lines necessary for wicked weather and the additional stakes necessary to anchor the lines, and you'll find that you have a lot more weight in metal and cordage than your average tent takes. I've gone to a slightly larger fly for fair to moderately severe weather over my hammock. The new fly has an actual catenary cut to the ridgeline. The last one had an imaginary one that was formed by the shape of the hem of the fly which only had four guy line attachment points (plus the ridgeline). The new one is much better in the wind.

[RedBeerd]

If you have a tent with a footprint you could always just use the footprint and rain fly and leave netting at home if you aren't expecting buggy conditions. This setup brings my fly creek ul1 to a respectable weight. Refer to numerous other threads about condensation..

[q-tip]

My TT Contrail weighs almost 1 pound (32 oz.) more than my Wild Oasis tarp (15 oz). I might use the tarp from time to time, but the Contrail is my go to for long hikes, and the extra pound is worth it for me.

[run2hike]

I'm having the same dilemma as I prepare for my 2013 thru. I have a 8x10 silnylon tarp I love it. I've used it on a few section hikes between Springer and Damascus in the spring and summer months. I don't have any bug netting and I've never had a real problem with bugs. Do the bugs get worse up north?

Also, for those of you who use tarptents, have you been able to cook in the vestibule while staying dry and not melting your tarptent?

[garlic08]

... Do the bugs get worse up north?

Also, for those of you who use tarptents, have you been able to cook in the vestibule while staying dry and not melting your tarptent?

If you get north early (before July) and find black flies, you'll want netting. Mosquitos are heavy in the north, too, but I don't know what you're used to.

As a rule, I do not cook in or near a tent. It would be wise to carry enough food that can be eaten without cooking just for occasions like that. Examples are extra cereal, instant potatoes, ramen, and deli stuff.

[jeffmeh]

I'm having the same dilemma as I prepare for my 2013 thru. I have a 8x10 silnylon tarp I love it. I've used it on a few section hikes between Springer and Damascus in the spring and summer months. I don't have any bug netting and I've never had a real problem with bugs. Do the bugs get worse up north?

Also, for those of you who use tarptents, have you been able to cook in the vestibule while staying dry and not melting your tarptent?

There are times of the year in New England where it would be absolutely foolish (and painful) not to have full no-see-um netting.

[run2hike]

There are times of the year in New England where it would be absolutely foolish (and painful) not to have full no-see-um netting.

Can you be any more specific?

[jeffmeh]

Can you be any more specific?

Sure. There are black flies through much of the U.S., but not in the numbers you will find in New England, and those are worse in ME, NH, and VT. Late May and June are usually the worst part of the black fly season, but they persist later. The good news is that black flies are not active at night.

Mosquitoes, on the other hand, can be active all day and night (there are more than 50 species in MA alone). Where I live in northeastern MA, there is rarely a night from late spring until it cools off in the fall where it is comfortable to sit outside given mosquito activity. We live a suburban area on the rural side, and we love our screened-in porch.

Then you get your no-see-ums, which tend to be most active around dawn or dusk, and your deer flies (like a horse fly) which favor the bright sun.

Now, if it is cold enough, or windy enough, you get some relief. I have had plenty of hikes in the Whites where the black flies were nasty until we reached higher elevations and the winds picked up.

I highly recommend having a headnet, treating clothing with permethrin, using an insect repellent (DEET or 20% Picaridin, which I prefer because unlike DEET it is not a plastic solvent), and no-see-um netting for sleeping. You can always stow your headnet and roll up your netting, but when you need it it is best to have it.

[SunnyWalker]

Gatewood Cape with Serenity Net Tent = tarp with netting protection against bugs AND a poncho for rain. I also use a bivi under the cape and all in al much lighthe then my tent set up. One option I have is hennessee hammock for summers.