New Smokies Permit fee issue and BMT

[Blissful]

I am seeing posts on when AT hikers should get their permits before entering the Smokies. What should be the protocol for getting your permit for the Smokies and where if you are a NOBO BMT thru hiker? DO you need to pick out the sites ahead of time and the dates when you pay your fee online? I know you need to make sure to get a print out of the permit. If I need to pick out dates and places, I suppose I'd have to do it en route rather than before I leave (? If so, where is a good place to do this?). Also wish we could get a designation of a "thru hiker" since we are starting over 50 miles outside the park boundary. Many thanks.

[SGT Rock]

For the BMT thru-hiker you do need to have an itinerary of where you plan to be on which day. You can make this up to 30 days prior, and if you plan to stay at Mt Sterling, Enloe Creek, or Laurel Gap shelter I suggest you make those arrangements as far out as possible (depending on the season) to make sure you get a spot. That said, I think now that you will have to pay per reservation, you are going to be less likely to see some of these sites full when making reservations, based on my experience I got the idea that groups often inflated their reservation numbers just in case someone came or to keep a crowd away. You can make the reservations all the way up until the day you need them.

Melissa Colburn of the park service told me that they will not penalize you if you need to short your mileage for safety, or in case you over plan your mileage per day. So what I read into that is have a reasonable plan in place before entering the park and if you need to stop short on a day of your hike, no one will go after you. I think in your case the hardest thing to calculate is what day you might enter the park.

As to where to do it from? Well my best guess is try to do it as early as you can. But if you cannot, there is still a phone at Twentymile and at Big Creek that can call the reservation office and you can still call into the reservation desk for your reservation and pay by credit card. I don't know if the park has a cash plan in place other than going in person to the reservation office at the Sugarlands. As I understand it, as long as you have a valid registration number they won't hassle you about a printed version. I know the plan is also to be able to send you your reservation via text message so if you have that on your phone, showing that should be just as valid as a printed permit.

[10-K]

Blissful if I can help you I'm happy to do it. You could give me a call when you are a few days out but close enough to have a plan and I can try and make the reservations for you from here.

[SGT Rock]

You know 10K, that isn't a bad idea. Maybe a service for helping BMT thru-hikers get their reservations set would be something to look into. That way they could pay their $20 a head of time to someone and when they get close enough, they can phone that person and get them to file the permit and send them the permit number via text or something.

[10-K]

Well, I know I was thinking about my next BMT hike being sobo - now I'm sure of it.

It'll be easier to start in the park than finish there.

Plus you can start the hike with and endless climb.

[Tennessee Viking]

I am seeing posts on when AT hikers should get their permits before entering the Smokies. What should be the protocol for getting your permit for the Smokies and where if you are a NOBO BMT thru hiker? DO you need to pick out the sites ahead of time and the dates when you pay your fee online? I know you need to make sure to get a print out of the permit. If I need to pick out dates and places, I suppose I'd have to do it en route rather than before I leave (? If so, where is a good place to do this?). Also wish we could get a designation of a "thru hiker" since we are starting over 50 miles outside the park boundary. Many thanks.

BMT is going to be hard since the trail traverses through mostly remote areas right before the Smokies.

I was trying to think the same thing with the WestBound Mountains-to-Sea Trail (MST) hiker since the FMST is still trying to reconfigure the trail going into the Smokies. The MST is either going to drop down off the Parkway through Cullowhee to Sylva to Bryson City then Smokies. Or the trail is going to climb to the top of the Plott Balsams from Waynesville then run down back down toward Bryson City. MST hikers should be able to order permits anywhere starting from Waynesville.

Any plans that park offices or campgrounds will be offering the permit upon arrival. Or is it strictly online.

[SGT Rock]

As far as I know, there are basically three ways to get a permit.

1. Online

2. Via phone to the reservation office.

3. In person at the Sugarlands permit office.

So in your example above you can get to a park location and call the reservation office on the phone and get a permit/reservation. But as far as I know you will still need a credit card to pay. I've been told that the permit number is all you will really need if challenged. The intent is to have a paperless permit system if possible to save on printing costs.

Now about other trails and such: People operating on a cash basis are pretty much stuck going to the permit office or getting someone else to do it for them. One of the Park Service's initial ideas that is probably still a go, is for AT thru-hikers to be able to make a reservation from the NOC or Fontana and pay that place for the permit. I imagine sobo AT thru-hikers could probably use Bluff Mountain or maybe Standing Bear.

For the BMT or MST thru-hiker it is going to be a stretch. Based on this conversation I'm thinking of offering BMT thru-hikers a service where they can pay me the $20 and give me their intended itinerary for the Smokies. When they get close they can tell me when they think they will start in the park and I'll file the reservation for them from here. I've got to check with the park service and see if that will be any sort of issue. I do tend to do some back-country camping myself and don't want a bunch of other people's reservations counting against my limit of nights in the park. MAYBE this is a service the BMTA could provide to BMTA members? Something to bring up and think about with the BMTA board next meeting.

Anyhow, I think the Park Service did not take all these situations into account when they came up with the system. It is pretty much designed for someone coming from home for a 7 night or less back country camping trip that can do all that before they leave. And second thought was given to the AT thru-hiker in order to get some money out of it without making it too complicated or burdensome for them. MST and BMT thru-hikers were not considered to be much of an issue since their numbers are relatively low. What I recommend anyone considering this type of hike to do is annoy the Park Service with these questions until it bumps them into thinking about it. Squeaky wheel and all. The number they ask you to call them at concerning this is 865-436-1207.

I think it would be cool for them to get lots of calls about "how can I do this" from hikers. We at the BMTA can "what if" them all day, but actually dealing with hikers will probably move them more.

[Dogwood]

So, what I'm getting, I can get my GSMNP permit for a BMT SOBO hike by calling in a reservation from the ph. available at Big Creek, where I'd be starting, and using my credit/debit card, AS LONG AS SPACE IS AVAILABLE. I'd have a permit number handy for a ranger to check up on rather than having a paper issued permit in my hand or attached to my pack? Cost me $20? Thx all.

[SGT Rock]

You have summed it up pretty well.

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[Dogwood]

I have to give it up when someone knows their stuff and goes the extra mile to communicate it to others. THANX for all the BMT beta, Sgt Rock!

[MuffinMan11]

Sgt Rock if I didnt already have a plan in regards to the reservations I would take you up on that offer as well and it sounds like a great plan. I take it you also are involved with the BMTA? I am doing a loop hike of the BMT/AT starting this Feb/March leaving from Bill Hodges house going south first so would end up doing the Smokeys section almost last.

[SGT Rock]

I'm currently on the BMTA board as the director of maintenance for the TN/NC section. Last year I was the Smokies section coordinator. Bill Hodge is doing amazing stuff with SAWS.

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[SGT Rock]

And good luck with your hike. If I can help let me know.

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[MuffinMan11]

He is doing amazing work and was very fortunate to have the opportunity working with him this last summer as one of his crew leaders. I might not be back with him this year but will definitely be out on his work trips volunteering at some point once I get back out that way.

[Sly]

I think now that you will have to pay per reservation, you are going to be less likely to see some of these sites full when making reservations, based on my experience I got the idea that groups often inflated their reservation numbers just in case someone came or to keep a crowd away. You can make the reservations all the way up until the day you need them.

This is probably the most overlooked advantage of having the new paid reservation system. There's no doubt in my mind, many times campsites and shelters were overbooked or booked without a firm intention of utilizing the reservation.

[SGT Rock]

I just posted this over in the GSMNP section: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...P-after-Feb-13!!!

[Blissful]

Blissful if I can help you I'm happy to do it. You could give me a call when you are a few days out but close enough to have a plan and I can try and make the reservations for you from here.

Thanks, 10K sure appreciate it! And thanks for the info, Sgt Rock

[Blissful]

So, what I'm getting, I can get my GSMNP permit for a BMT SOBO hike by calling in a reservation from the ph. available at Big Creek, where I'd be starting, and using my credit/debit card, AS LONG AS SPACE IS AVAILABLE. I'd have a permit number handy for a ranger to check up on rather than having a paper issued permit in my hand or attached to my pack? Cost me $20? Thx all.

This is what I didn't get as I thought you had to have this paper in hand - printed out. That they wanted you to do it all online rather than by phone.

[SGT Rock]

You can do it by phone, but then you get the permit mailed to you or e-mailed to you so you can print it off.

[Blissful]

Do you have to have a printed copy or is having it on your phone good enough?