Whats the big deal about the Smokies permit?

[colorado_rob]

Ever get caught in a rainstorm causing the creeks to get too high? Every get caught in a blizzard on a ridge so you have sit put for 5 days? Ever have the squirts and want to pull a zero in your tent? It's called the Freedom to alter your route. The new rules eat options and choices.

All of the above! And much more so (like stuck at 17,000' in a whiteout for 10 days?).

See what I mean about the "rant" thing? Pointless. In all my travels in regulated NP's and such, with very specific permits, I've never once been hassled by a ranger because of having to change my itinerary because of conditions. the rangers, in fact, have always been very helpful and understanding.

[Northern Lights]

When I did my section hike of the Smokies, I didn't have any problems with the Rangers and I was not on schedule. I interacted with two of them, the first one understood that I camped out on the trail between shelters. And the second one changed the dates on my permit and sent me on my way. There isn't anywhere I have been in Canada that didn't require payment for hiking or camping whether it was a National or Provincial Park. Maybe because of that I am accustomed to paying and don't have an issue with it. I don't know how the new system will work for thru hikers, I assume they will be able to just book their trip thru, much like they do now in just showing up, I'm sure there will be a computer and printer along the way at a hostel or motel that will allow them to do this prior to entering the Smokies. The permit is good for 30 days so they only have to plan to be there in that 30 day period. It really doesn't concern me what they do with the money collected. I would hope it went to trail maintenance but I'm not going to lose sleep about how it is spent. I do agree, after visiting Cades Cove years ago that their should also be fees to those visiting the park as well.

[Sly]

Ever get caught in a rainstorm causing the creeks to get too high? Every get caught in a blizzard on a ridge so you have sit put for 5 days? Ever have the squirts and want to pull a zero in your tent? It's called the Freedom to alter your route. The new rules eat options and choices.

So alter your god damn route and stop acting like a cry baby. Just explain it to the ranger, it's not like he's going to throw you in jail..

[jeffmeh]

I think we are having four different arguments here folks:
1) Should people have to pay to enter the park?
2) Are the logistics around payments and permits sufficiently user-friendly?
3) Are the rules around reservations overly constraining?
4) Is the payment scheme well-designed (positive cash flow, funds reinvested in the park, better than alternatives)?

Proceed.

[Lone Wolf]

buncha snivelin' whiners. skip the smoky's if you don't wanna spend the lousy $20`

[Sly]

If you argue, they will come.

[Sly]

buncha snivelin' whiners. skip the smoky's if you don't wanna spend the lousy $20`

....but a shuttle around the Smokys will cost $100!

[swjohnsey]

Most folks are sheep and will go along with anything.

[Lone Wolf]

....but a shuttle around the Smokys will cost $100!

real hikers hitch hike

[StylinLP38]

Well, Im just going to follow the white blazes. If a ranger stops me I will give him $20 and the form I printed up if it isn't rain damaged. *shrug* I have no clue what so ever when I will be going thru these "Smokies"

[prain4u]

The only problem that I see is that the system isn't necessarily user friendly--yet! However, it is not a super difficult process as it is.

I have hiked/canoed in several places where you had to be very strict with your itinerary and be very specific regarding where you would camp each night etc. (And you had to pay a daily fee). No big problem.

As most of us know, there are also National Parks or Provincial Parks where you have to enter a lottery to get a back country permit (or reservations for permits are made on a first come first served basis--and when they are full they are full. Thus, you must set your itinerary many months in advance). This GSNP permit process is simple by comparison.

[WingedMonkey]

buncha snivelin' whiners. skip the smoky's if you don't wanna spend the lousy $20`

Next thing ya know they will be crying over the AMC crew not letting them in a hut in the Whites, and blaming them for falling down on the wet rocks.

[mtntopper]

Ever get caught in a rainstorm causing the creeks to get too high? Every get caught in a blizzard on a ridge so you have sit put for 5 days? Ever have the squirts and want to pull a zero in your tent? It's called the Freedom to alter your route. The new rules eat options and choices.

There are exceptions for the things that you mention, creeks too high to cross, being sick, snow storms and the like. These new rules will help the backcountry if the rangers do their jobs.

[max patch]

The only problem that I see is that the system isn't necessarily user friendly--yet!

My comments only apply to the AT.

For section hikers I would argue that its a whole lot MORE user friendly. Log on, make your reservation, done. Beats the heck out of making that phone call - which never gets answered on the first (or tenth - or twentieth -or more) attempt.

For thru hikers really no change at all except for the $20 thing.

[Mags]

I can see why people may be upset over the fees, but the idea of a NP *FINALLY* allowing reservations online is awesome.

In this day and age, I should be able to go to the Canyonlands NP site (for example) and book my backcountry permit.

[Darwin13]

Perhaps some people, like myself, believe that a 'government' should not and can not own the land because it is no single entity or person's to own. So for those few nomads who enjoy being outside, on the earth or in the sea, and who take care to leave it as they found, believe that the earth is the earth and we are all part of it, and instead of giving money to some abstract idea of authority for an even more obfuscated idea of 'preservation', wish to use the earth as every other animal species on this planet and do their own part to keep it clean.



Then again, that white bearded man in the sky gave us the universe and government, and capitalism and communism and money and all that other dumb meaningless crap that most people find more important than love and taking care of the earth.

[Sly]

Perhaps some people, like myself, believe that a 'government' should not and can not own the land because it is no single entity or person's to own. So for those few nomads who enjoy being outside, on the earth or in the sea, and who take care to leave it as they found, believe that the earth is the earth and we are all part of it, and instead of giving money to some abstract idea of authority for an even more obfuscated idea of 'preservation', wish to use the earth as every other animal species on this planet and do their own part to keep it clean.

Do you understand the concept of conservation and how the NPS, and GSMNP specifically, were/was created? The entire area would be bald as Kojac's head without any trails running through it if left up to private enterprise and the general public.

[Sly]

real hikers hitch hike

Indeed, but have you seen how difficult it is? It would be a fun experiment to see who got to Davenport Gap first hitching east and west from where the trail hits rt 28.

[Another Kevin]

Ya'll that think this is a good idea for raising fees, just think about those numbers and then honestly answer if you think this is going to be a good idea. If your answer is yes, then you gotta decide if it yes because you just want people to have to pay, or is it yes because you think that the budget getting tightened everywhere else is a good thing.

The real money isn't in the fees. The real money is in the fines extracted from backcountry users whose paperwork isn't in order. I bet that if the permit is $20, the fine for not having one is at least $200. And I bet that the part-time enforcers get quotas, at least informally, just like traffic cops. I hope they hire new people to do the job, because the rangers won't put up with it. It's not the job they signed up to do.

[Feral Bill]

I'll boldly predict that the system will have it's bugs worked out shortly and in couple of years no one will remember or care about the controversy.