I'm with you on this one. Indeed, if it came to it, I would love to spend a night in jail for the adventure of it all (free meal, maybe even a shower). But the chances are, if caught without permit, I'll just be cited. That's 'fine' by me, I'll tell the ranger, in hopes he might laugh. Of course, all he'll be getting from me is a trail-name, as it's not yet law to carry ID on a hike.
Chris McCandless didn't need a permit to float down the Grand Canyon!
Nearly Sincerely,
-Funnybone!
Pennine Way UK Trail Journal ('12)
PCT Thru-Hike Trail Journal ('06)
Travel Tales and Travails
AT Trail Journal ('13)
And in typical WB fashion this thread about the permit is moving toward a discussion on the function of goverment. Oy vey.
I've never been fond of paying to use outdoor areas or having to get some "permit" just to be there.
ITS THE OUTDOORS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT?
It's almost like people are trying to act like it is some 5 star dine in eatery.
-Jason
Maybe the typical Whiteblaze user understands that the governments becoming more disfunctional each year. Charging for a reservation which will only fund the staff/IT to collect the fee is in my opinion a complete waste.Originally Posted by max patch:1404750
well, sgt rock outranks me by 2 pay grades, so i'll have to roll with him .. wait a minute, he's army, not marines! anyway, i agree that it's bull****, some administrator's wet dream; and i also relate to tipi walter's comments in the last post - but then again, how many rangers are going to be out there, and if so, willing to ticket you, in such extreme circumstances? I did a lot of camping in canada several years back, and those people have extracting money down to a science, from the national park fees to the "privatized" provincial parks. i'm just intending to cruise thru and enjoy the experience, paying whatever to whomever i need to (and not doing so when i can get away with it) on the way. happy trails!
I remember when the Federal Income Tax was implemented back in 1913, it was only 1%, only on the rich and only until the WWI debt was paid . . .
Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
Woo
Great way to sum it up. I'll try and stay out of the weeds and answer these 4 questions:
1. You do not have to pay to enter GSMNP, that will still be free. I'm personally not opposed to paying for staying in the back country. I already donate money to the park and do volunteer maintenance so I feel like I'm already living up to that.
2. My personal opinion is no. I think they have made them more user friendly, sort of, for a guy like me that wants to plan a trip for next week and wants to use reservation sites because I now get to avoid making that phone call that I always dread. But for trips where I would avoid all reservation sites it is now harder. For AT hikers they have also made it harder, but I wouldn't say burdensome. I would say, in the thru-hiker case, they have gamed then system to get the maximum reservations they can because it will be easier to get a reservation before you start, and if you bail before you get to the Smokies they get to keep your money. For MST and BMT hikers, it is burdensome if you start somewhere besides the park. Our numbers are so small I think the park service just doesn't care.
3. Overly? No. More restraining than they use to be, yes. Do they need to be that way? No.
4. No. But they have bought off on the plan. I was thinking about it today and decided if the Park Service is willing to cut funding for front country campers so we get the wonderful new system for reservations and a couple of rangers that will probably never bother me, who am I to complain. Less maintenance on roads, visitor centers, etc is something they will end up regretting.
Well said Max.
SGT Rock
http://hikinghq.net
My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT
BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
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NO SNIVELING
Like it or not, it's what we have now. Learn the process, follow the rules as close as you possibly can, and enjoy your hike! There are far too many other (and more socially important) issues to get upset about in today's world.
Biggie
National Parks are a huge annoyance, and magnet for the plaid short/RV set.
Only reason I'd set foot in the Smokies is to get to the other end as quickly as possible.
Not wanting to drag this on forever....
But, whatever happened to the thought about making a reservation and not showing up. I seem to remember some discussion about a penalty for not being at the site you reserved. This was to help avoid the scenario where 1 person books for several and pays for fictious occupants at a site in hopes of keeping people away.
I actually know of a well-to-do person who would book National Park or National Forest cabins (on the first day you could reserve one), pay for them on the chance that she might stay in one just to guarantee a spot, and then might or might not go. She would either eat the cost of the reservation or pay the cancellation fee if plans changed. The problem I saw was that she would rarely go unless she had a group of folks willing to accompany her. When I questioned her about all these sunk costs, she replied that it was a minor cost compared to the travel to get there. I was a little taken back by this, but then realized that it is probably done all the time. Some people are just selfish and are always trying to make it tough on those that like to follow the rules.
I guess the same thing could have happened under the old free system (in the GSMNP) and probably did. So.. what if you don't show?
Looks like this needs to be said. Permits are going to be required and paid for. Please do not post to WB about intentionally not paying for the permit nor about illegal camping. That would be in violation of the user agreement.
Thanks.4. Discussions involving how to commit illegal acts, or involving the use, production and/or distribution of illegal drugs are forbidden.
Everybody is subject to the new regulations, thruhikers are getting special consideration in terms of cost, access to shelters, and flexible dates. Thrus may not like it, but you are going to give hikers, and specifically thruhikers, a bad impression by skipping out on the fee.
"Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
Call for his whisky
He can call for his tea
Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan
Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.
Read Kevin's quote below. It's not about going to jail, it's about having to look over your shoulder and not get caught so you won't have to pay the fine.
It's an impossible system. Suppose I want to pull a 21 day backpacking trip thru the Park. First, I have to make 3 separate 7 day reservations---that's $30. Then I have to pay $20 for each 7 day segment---that's $60. So, even before leaving I'm out $90. THEN I have to somehow come up with a coherent 21 day trail route with all the appropriate campsites picked beforehand. This is impossible. Suppose I just want to sit put for a couple days but don't know where beforehand at home when planning the trip? Not to mention blizzards or high water or trail illness like the squirts, etc. Where will I be on Day 15? No one knows.