Bleach v. Aquamira Drops

[MuddyWaters]

Neither bleach nor Aqua Mira are 100%. Both kill or neutralize pathogens to some extent though. With bleach there are several studies you can look up to find the effectiveness, and the concentration and conditions used to get it.

AM is 100% if you choose to wait the time required to effectively treat Cryptosporidium.

Bleach, however is not very effective against protozoa.
It is not very effective against Giardia. With a lot, and very long contact times, it might work OK, might not.
Bleach also is completely inneffective agains cryptosporidium at certain stage of its life cycle.

[leaftye]

AM is 100% if you choose to wait the time required to effectively treat Cryptosporidium.

Bleach, however is not very effective against protozoa.
It is not very effective against Giardia. With a lot, and very long contact times, it might work OK, might not.
Bleach also is completely inneffective agains cryptosporidium at certain stage of its life cycle.

100%??

Since the initial claims from the bulk supplier for Aquamira Water Treatment were "bacteria, taste and odor", and all testing was done in potable water, the required wait times are appropriately lower than the tablets. The testing for the tablets was conducted to meet the EPA purifier standards in EPA Type II water. This water is kept at low temps, has a high level of turbidity, and organic load to intentionally make chemical treatment more difficult. This is the reason for the 4 hour wait time with the tablets. Under EPA Type II conditions it takes 4 hours to achieve a >99.9% reduction of Cryptosporidium which is the most difficult test organism to kill. If Aquamira Water Treatment was subjected to the same conditions, it would require a 4 hour wait time to kill Crypto as well. Keep in mind that in very few cases would anyone encounter water sources that are even remotely close in difficulty to treat as EPA Type II water.

Thank you again for the opportunity to address your questions and concerns.

Dennis B. Brown
Chief Operating Officer
Aquamira Technologies, Inc.

....

[leaftye]

They link to their report. It mentions checking for cysts and oocysts in the digestive system of mice that consumed treated water, but I don't see those results. They show that their mice survived, and that seems to be the reason it passed test. I wouldn't call that 100% effective any more than it has been 100% when hikers didn't treat their water at all and didn't get sick.

http://aquamira.com/consumer/aquamir...ysts_final.pdf





Sawyer publishes the number of crypto and giardia that made it past their filter: 0. That's the definition of 100% for me. Sawyer didn't use mice. They went directly to counting.

http://www.sawyer.com/documents/field-micro.pdf

[leaftye]

In this test for the military, they concluded that Aqua Mira tabs were...

"Not effective against Giardia cysts and Cryptosporidium oocysts"

And with Aqua Mira drops...

"Not effective against Cryptosporidium oocyst"

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...f&AD=ADA475539

[Drybones]

This information comes from Virginia Cooperative Extension It is becoming increasingly accepted by the scientific community that chlorine dioxide technologies are more effective than iodine and chlorine for reducing the pathogenicity of dirty (soil-laden) waters containing bacteria, and waters containing cysts. Part of the reason is that chlorine dioxide is more effective than iodine at penetrating microbial biofilms attached to soil particles that can harbor large quantities of pathogenic microorganisms. Water purification using common household chemicals The most common chemical water purification in the home is done with either chlorine bleach or iodine. If used properly, the water will not be toxic after the use of these chemicals, but may have an odor or taste. A. Household chemicals used 1. Chlorine Bleach. There are many different types of bleach on the market. Read the label to be sure that sodium hypochlorite is the only active ingredient. Do not use bleach solutions that contain detergents or other chemical components (e.g., scented bleach). If the container has a label warning "not for personal use" it should not be used. Fresh, unopened, liquid laundry bleach contains 5.25% sodium hypochlorite. However, a bottle of bleach which has been open for an extended period of time may lose some of its strength, especially if the container is only partially full. 2. Iodine. Iodine tablets and liquid iodine (Tincture of Iodine) can also be used to purify water. Again, read the label for recommended procedures. Tincture of Iodine usually contains 2.0% U.S.P. iodine. However, there is some variation in this product. In general, iodine has the disadvantage (compared to chlorine) in that it is not as effective over a wide range of pathogens and it imparts taste and a brown tint to the water. Thus, it should be used only when chlorine is not available. B. Purification Procedure 1. Add the recommended level of the chemical (Table 1) using a clean, uncontaminated medicine dropper or suitable utensil.The following conversions may be helpful in determining the correct amount: 8 drops = 1/8 teaspoon 16 drops = 1/4 teaspoon 32 drops = 1/2 teaspoon 64 drops = 1 teaspoon 192 drops = 1 tablespoon 384 drops = 2 tablespoons (1/8 cup) 3. Stir the chemical thoroughly into the water. If the water does not have a faint chemical smell after the 30 minute waiting period, add another dose and let it sit for an additional 15 minutes. 4. Allow the water to stand for 30 minutes. If the water is cloudy, repeat the procedure. 5. Dispense into a clean, sanitized, and tightly capped container, which has been appropriately labeled to indicate its contents. Table 1. Recommended concentrations of chlorine bleach or iodine products for water purification. Volume of Water to Be Purified_______Recommended Amount of Chemical ____________Chlorine*(bleach)___Iodine# Tablets____Tincture of Iodine## 1 quart (1 liter)____4 drops__________2 tablets_________½ drop ½ gallon (2 liter)___8 (1/8 teaspoon)__4 tablets_________1 drop 1 gallon (4 liter)___16drops(¼ teasp)__8 tablets_________2 drops *Fresh, unscented laundry bleach containing 5.25% hypochlorite. If the bleach has been opened for a period of time or is less concentrated, increase the amount added. If the water is cloudy in appearance repeat the procedure. #Dry iodine tablets. ##Liquid iodine solution. Label concentration of 2.0% iodine. If a tincture of iodine is used with a different stated iodine concentration, the usage level may be calculated as follows: Drops/gal = 80 divided by the % iodine in the concentrated solution.

Good info Owl....thanks.

[bfayer]

Everyone needs to keep in mind any advise from an extension service, the red cross, FEMA, or any other municipal agency is aimed at emergency use by people in a residential setting.

Hiking is a horse of a different color so to speak. In a household setting It is expected that in an emergency situation one of the only disinfectants available will be bleach, so that is what they recommend. They also assume that the bleach will be stored inside.

I have never read a credible recommendation from anyone involved in non emergency wilderness water treatment that says bleach is a good idea.

All the recommendations for bleach I have read are either based on an emergency management agencies recommendation or based on the personal experiences of a hiker that says they used it and did not get sick. Neither one is a reliable source for picking a water treatment option for hiking.

The military studies are the closest to meeting our requirement's but the military has more stringent requirements than an average hiker. For example in most hiking areas of the U.S. viruses are not an issue. Crypto is very rare on the east coast also. We as hikers also have the ability to pick our water sources with more discretion than the military.

The bottom line is for hiking in north america, any of the main stream commercial products will usually do the job. Which you choose should be based on your individual priorities, such as weight, convenience, expected water sources, etc.

Household bleach is a poor solution compared to any other commercial option. Use it if you must or if you like, but don't try to convince yourself is is just as good or better than the commercial alternatives.

[littlefoot33]

I am not going to say that this is good and you should do it, but I thru-hiked SOBO last summer, and I would guesstimate that > 2/3 of thru-hikers used bleach. I myself started with a Katadyn pump, then went to AquaMira, then went to bleach (temporarily carrying the pump again in CT-PA due to summer dryness).
Why did we use bleach?
1.) it's light weight
2.) it's cheap (usually free to refill your little eyedropper at a hostel, restaurant, or gas station)
3.) it's available (again, almost all hostels, restaurants, gas stations)
4.) it's simple (no pre-mix balancing acts)
Yeah it tastes a little like pool-water and is probably not great for you. But I did not meet anyone who diligently bleached and regretted it. Just puttin' that out there.

[trovar]

During the course of my two thru-hikes (AT & PCT), I only met three people using bleach while almost everyone else who wasn't using a filter/steripen was using Aqua Mira, if that means anything. Bleach is lighter, cheaper, and easier to use (no mixing) but I've always gone with AM especially after reading http://goo.gl/n90AG

[Lyle]

Why would you use a chemical when a SAWYER filter is less than $50 and weighs just oz's. Go with the sawyer fikter,,,,,,

Almost all of the folks that I've seen using filters do not handle or store them with enough care to avoid cross contamination. Therefore, they are not reliable in the long term. Just plopping in a ziplock is not proper care.

Of course, the same can be said of proper care of water bottles, cooking utensils, hands, etc. so it is a personal choice.

For me, using AquaMira both sanitizes the water, and the water bottle. Better chance of getting good water. Filter does NOTHING to clean and sanitize your water container from use to use.

[Snowleopard]

Bleach works well on viruses but is only effective on bacteria under the carefully controlled conditions of a municipal water supply. Even under carefully controlled conditions it is ineffective on Cryptosporidium (Worcester, MA had crypto in its drinking water when it used chlorination (essentially bleach)). And, as bfayer says:

The other problem with bleach as I have posted before is that you have no way of knowing if it is being effective. ...

[swjohnsey]

In this test for the military, they concluded that Aqua Mira tabs were...

"Not effective against Giardia cysts and Cryptosporidium oocysts"

And with Aqua Mira drops...

"Not effective against Cryptosporidium oocyst"

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...f&AD=ADA475539

But the U.S. military continues to use iodine tablets in the field.

[swjohnsey]

Bleach works well on viruses but is only effective on bacteria under the carefully controlled conditions of a municipal water supply. Even under carefully controlled conditions it is ineffective on Cryptosporidium (Worcester, MA had crypto in its drinking water when it used chlorination (essentially bleach)). And, as bfayer says:

Most cities continue to use some form of chlorine to treat water.

[bfayer]

Most cities continue to use some form of chlorine to treat water.

And they use a comprehensive testing regime to ensure the free chlorine is at the correct level to ensure it is doing its job.

Even people than own a pool test the water to ensure the chlorine is at the correct level.

Using household bleach as a water disinfectant is a crap shoot. Like I said use it if you want, but don't delude yourself into believing it is as good as other commercial alternatives unless you test your free chlorine level.

[swjohnsey]

Using the recommended doseage of bleach (1 drp/pint clear water 2 drp/pint turbid water) is high enough to ensure residual chlorine. The U.S. Army continues to use iodine for individual and some form of chlorine for treating bulk water (filling water buffalos) in the field. It is liquid, comes in a glass vial and does have a residual chlorine test kit.

[bfayer]

Using the recommended doseage of bleach (1 drp/pint clear water 2 drp/pint turbid water) is high enough to ensure residual chlorine. The U.S. Army continues to use iodine for individual and some form of chlorine for treating bulk water (filling water buffalos) in the field. It is liquid, comes in a glass vial and does have a residual chlorine test kit.

Iodine is generally stable as long aso it is kept in an air tight container. If left open it degrades.

And you are correct, when the military uses chlorine it tests it. Hikers don't, in fact they don't even know the chlorine content of the bleach they are using.

You seem to keep arguing that bleach is a good choice for hikers to use for treating water but in fact you have no way of knowing one way or the other if it's working or not.

If you are saying that you understand the risks of using bleach to treat water and you have no problems accepting the risks, I have no problem with that.

Others however need to know the risks and make their own decision without misinformation.

[swjohnsey]

You don't know if your filter is working. You don't know if Aqua Mira is working. You might as well wave your flashlight over you water as use a Steripen. Personally, I usually don't treat water on the trail. On those rare occassions when I do I use bleach. I have a calibrated nose and can detect residual chlorine.

[NCMedic]

I feel AM is the only way to go. I have used the Sawyer filters, bleach, and the canister filters in the past and had issues with all of these at one time or another. AM is lightweight, works fairly fast and kills more of the bad nasties in the water than any of the above solutions. Besides, in a pinch, there is always boiling as well..

[bfayer]

So your saying bleach works "because I say so". Got it, good argument :screwy:

We know filters and aquamira work because of extensive lab testing. They are both stable methods when used as designed. Bleach is unstable and is not marketed to the public as water treatment for that reason.

[swjohnsey]

Bleach is chlorine, been used to treat water on a large scale for many, many years. Talk about screwy. Most of the "extensive lab testing" was done by the folks sellin' you this stuff.

[bfayer]

Bleach is chlorine, been used to treat water on a large scale for many, many years. Talk about screwy. Most of the "extensive lab testing" was done by the folks sellin' you this stuff.

There have been links posted to two military studies, not by folks selling the stuff, one with over 600 pages of data.

As I have stated over and over again large scale water treatment is tested extensively and does not use household bleach.

I guess I don't understand why you seem to have so much ownership in this issue and why you insist that household bleach is a good choice, when all the data shows that without routine testing its not.

Effective water treatment is not subjective like which pack is better or if tarps are better than tents. Water treatment is objective and measurable. The people that have done the measuring say its not a good option when compared to other products on the market. Why not just accept the facts and move on?