Community-Created Guidebook Interest Study

[infkassim]

Hello Whiteblazers!

I am a maker of web applications looking to give back to the Appalachian Trail community and start a fun open source software hobby project.

Here's what I have in mind. I want to create a framework for websites where a hiking community can come together to create a trail guidebook, such as the ones published by ALDHA or Wingfoot, that any hiker can contribute to.

I'm talking about something like a Wikipedia of trail guidebooks - something you could print out and use on your hikes for free.

I want to know what you think. I am particularly interested in your response to any of these questions:

1) Would you consider using a community-created guidebook on your next AT adventure?

2) What features would you find useful in a website for planning your next AT trip? (An interactive map? An offline phone app? Shelter ratings?)

3) Would you help edit the guide or write an article?

4) Are you, or do you know, a software developer who would volunteer some of their time to work on this project?

If there is enough interest for us to make something good together, I will start planning the website right away. Thank you for your interest and have a wonderful day!

[Sly]

Without trying to sounding totally altruistic, the Thru-Hikers Companion which is owned by ALDHA is published by the ATC. If I'm not mistaken, it's their best selling guide, so if your project takes sales from the Companion, you'll be taking money from the Trail.

[chief]

Competition is good, the trail will survive.

[Rasty]

Great idea!

[Magic_Rat]

Somebody over on reddit.com/r/appalachiantrail posted about a project they are working on that sounds very similar to this. Their website is wikitrail.org

[Chaco Taco]

no offense but do we really need another trailguide for the AT? I mean there are whiteblazes every 50 feet. The Companion is pretty much a community based book as it is from info gathered from folks up and down the AT. I think AWOL's book is the same but it primarily comes from AWOL. Then you have the data book, then you have the Guidebooks and maps for each section. My opinion is that another guidebook would be overkill for the AT. Might as well pave it. Why not put together a blue/ yellow blaze guide to trails connected to the AT? There are some great one's that are actually better than parts of the AT

[rocketsocks]

Why not put together a blue/ yellow blaze guide to trails connected to the AT? There are some great one's that are actually better than parts of the AT

I like this idea, could be very handy on a APP, or in print.

[leaftye]

The biggest problem is the threat that someone, you, could claim ownership of all the name/content/website/contacts and make all the volunteer work for naught. Been there, done that.

[infkassim]

Without trying to sounding totally altruistic, the Thru-Hikers Companion which is owned by ALDHA is published by the ATC. If I'm not mistaken, it's their best selling guide, so if your project takes sales from the Companion, you'll be taking money from the Trail.

On the contrary, it's me who is being the altruistic one.

My motive in considering a project like this is to bring an awareness to scenic trails and the preservation of the wilderness by freely displaying their beauty and showing the character of the communities who appreciate them. As long as there is a strong, outspoken interest in scenic trails, they will be publicly protected along with the organizations that promote them. I think the value of ALDHA is the extent to which they support and organize a community of long distance hikers. They have a lot to gain from anything that makes the trail more accessible and enjoyable to hikers. I think it's for that reason that not so long ago, they gave the guide away for free.

I'm interested in this project because I think the technical difficulty of communication between hikers means that a lot of interesting stories are being lost that we should be trying to preserve, the end of a lot of blue blaze trails are remaining mysterious that should be revealed, and a lot of secret camping spots maybe are being kept a little bit too secret.

[Chaco Taco]

the AT doesnt need help being more accessible.
In terms of technical difficulty of stories....have you seen how many books are written by hikers about their hikes? and movies? Again, overkill

On the contrary, it's me who is being the altruistic one.

My motive in considering a project like this is to bring an awareness to scenic trails and the preservation of the wilderness by freely displaying their beauty and showing the character of the communities who appreciate them. As long as there is a strong, outspoken interest in scenic trails, they will be publicly protected along with the organizations that promote them. I think the value of ALDHA is the extent to which they support and organize a community of long distance hikers. They have a lot to gain from anything that makes the trail more accessible and enjoyable to hikers. I think it's for that reason that not so long ago, they gave the guide away for free.

I'm interested in this project because I think the technical difficulty of communication between hikers means that a lot of interesting stories are being lost that we should be trying to preserve, the end of a lot of blue blaze trails are remaining mysterious that should be revealed, and a lot of secret camping spots maybe are being kept a little bit too secret.

[Chaco Taco]

AND by trying to reveal secret camping spots you put the train in danger. Its already overused and over hiked

On the contrary, it's me who is being the altruistic one.

My motive in considering a project like this is to bring an awareness to scenic trails and the preservation of the wilderness by freely displaying their beauty and showing the character of the communities who appreciate them. As long as there is a strong, outspoken interest in scenic trails, they will be publicly protected along with the organizations that promote them. I think the value of ALDHA is the extent to which they support and organize a community of long distance hikers. They have a lot to gain from anything that makes the trail more accessible and enjoyable to hikers. I think it's for that reason that not so long ago, they gave the guide away for free.

I'm interested in this project because I think the technical difficulty of communication between hikers means that a lot of interesting stories are being lost that we should be trying to preserve, the end of a lot of blue blaze trails are remaining mysterious that should be revealed, and a lot of secret camping spots maybe are being kept a little bit too secret.

[Rasty]

A partnership Phone app with ALDHA or AWOL and Postholer maps and Whiteblaze would be a worthwhile concept. Develop a first paid app with proceeds being split. Maybe add weather by mile marker.

[infkassim]

Somebody over on reddit.com/r/appalachiantrail posted about a project they are working on that sounds very similar to this. Their website is wikitrail.org

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. This is similar to what I'm trying to do, but there are some important differences in what I'm trying to accomplish.

Let me make it clear that I'm not trying to become the founder of a new trail website. I'm trying to make an open source web framework, much like Wikipedia, which other people can use (maybe owners of existing sites) to keep a trail-specific wiki about whatever trail they want to promote. I have in mind a framework that would work just as well with the PCT or the Florida trail. It may be that a single trail may support multiple guides for specialty purposes.

Also within the framework, I would like to emphasize the usefulness of the software, or print copies, on the trail itself.

[leaftye]

And how do you plan to protect this resource from you?

[infkassim]

The biggest problem is the threat that someone, you, could claim ownership of all the name/content/website/contacts and make all the volunteer work for naught. Been there, done that.

This problem has been solved in a very clever way by what is known as a "copyleft" or "open source" license.

The code will be protected under the GNU General Public License and I will encourage people who use the framework to protect their users content under a Creative Commons license. These licenses stipulate that the work must not be distributed for a fee, there can be no restriction on what the work is used for, and that any derivative work must be distributed under the same license.

[leaftye]

This problem has been solved in a very clever way by what is known as a "copyleft" or "open source" license.

The code will be protected under the GNU General Public License and I will encourage people who use the framework to protect their users content under a Creative Commons license. These licenses stipulate that the work must not be distributed for a fee, there can be no restriction on what the work is used for, and that any derivative work must be distributed under the same license.

And the domain name? Once it gains momentum, what's to stop you from replacing it with pay content, or requiring members to pay to access and offload their contributions, or just holding the domain name hostage?

[infkassim]

And the domain name? Once it gains momentum, what's to stop you from replacing it with pay content, or requiring members to pay to access and offload their contributions, or just holding the domain name hostage?

I should make a correction in that quote. I meant to say that under the GNU Public License (GPL), when the work is distributed, there can be no restrictions on the conditions of the distributions. Notably, the work can be distributed for free by anyone as long as it is distributed with the source code. Once the source code is out there, there is nothing I can do to bring it back under my control.

Under an appropriate Creative Commons license, some of those things you mentioned would be against the terms of the license, and the others would be mitigated by the fact that the content would be freely distributable. However, I could hold the domain name hostage. Trademarks are not affected by open source licenses.

[Jeff]

One aspect missing from all the trail guides (purposely I am sure) is opinions of the overall quality of a hiker service business.

Testimonials about the good and bad service provided gives a clue as to what you might expect. The original Philosophers Guide from the early 1990's did indeed offer up hiker comments about restaurants, motels, outfitters.

Of course, there may be a liability issue when someone slams a business. But how do travel guides get away with ranking four star hotels and the like? I know there are a few motels who I would recommend against ever using...but hikers have to find out for themselves every year.

[max patch]

Ever read threads on WB? That Guide would end up as big as a phone book.

[max patch]

How did wikitrail.org get the mileage info? Unless someone used a wheel, I'm guessing they stole it from the Data Book.