Bleach for water???

[DaTwiztedOne]

Hi yall, new here, not new to outdoors and camping and "some" day hiking, the wife and i are working on doing some section hikes on the AT. anyway getting to the point of question... i read on a state web site that all you needed was bleach below is what it said.

• If boiling is not possible, treat water by adding liquid household bleach, such as Clorox or Purex. Household bleach is typically between 5 percent and 6 percent chlorine. Avoid using bleaches that contain perfumes, dyes and other additives. Be sure to read the label.
• Place the water (filtered, if necessary) in a clean container. Add the amount of bleach according to the table below.
• Mix thoroughly and allow to stand for at least 30 minutes before using (60 minutes if the water is cloudy or very cold).

Treating Water with a 5-6 Percent Liquid Chlorine Bleach Solution
Volume of Water to be Treated	Treating Clear/Cloudy Water: Bleach Solution to Add	Treating Cloudy, Very Cold, or Surface Water: Bleach Solution to Add
1 quart/1 liter	3 drops	5 drops
1/2 gallon/2 quarts/2 liters	5 drops	10 drops
1 gallon	1/8 teaspoon	1/4 teaspoon
5 gallons	1/2 teaspoon	1 teaspoon
10 gallons	1 teaspoon	2 teaspoons

anybody done it this way???

thanks

[Feral Bill]

Several people here swear by this method. However, bleach WILL NOT KILL PROTISTS, SUCH AS GIARDIA AND CRYPTOSPORIDIUM. Please see the endless discussion of water treatment in earlier threads. Bleach is recommended for emergency treatment of household water, primarily because people usually have some.

[leaftye]

Ugh, this again.

Bleach can work for giardia at room temperature, but requires much more drops than usual--30 per liter. Effect of Chlorine on Giardia lamblia Cyst Viability.

Bleach doesn't seem to work with Cryptosporidium though, not even with much higher concentrations of chlorine than is found in household bleach. Effects of Ozone, Chlorine Dioxide, Chlorine, and Monochloramine on Cryptosporidium parvum Oocyst Viability

[Colter]

Ugh, this again.

Bleach can work for giardia at room temperature, but requires much more drops than usual--30 per liter. Effect of Chlorine on Giardia lamblia Cyst Viability.

Bleach doesn't seem to work with Cryptosporidium though, not even with much higher concentrations of chlorine than is found in household bleach. Effects of Ozone, Chlorine Dioxide, Chlorine, and Monochloramine on Cryptosporidium parvum Oocyst Viability

Thank you for quoting scientific papers. This paper, by my reading, says that if you wait long enough (4 hours) standard chlorine treatment works very effectively for giardia even in 41 degree water. At 30 drops per liter it would kill all the giardia cysts in 10 minutes in 41 degree water. Seems wiser to find room temp water or warm the water up to room temp and use much lower amounts of bleach. Better yet, rely on a water treatment method that kills crypto, too!

[leaftye]

Thank you for quoting scientific papers. This paper, by my reading, says that if you wait long enough (4 hours) standard chlorine treatment works very effectively for giardia even in 41 degree water. At 30 drops per liter it would kill all the giardia cysts in 10 minutes in 41 degree water. Seems wiser to find room temp water or warm the water up to room temp and use much lower amounts of bleach. Better yet, rely on a water treatment method that kills crypto, too!

I read that the same way, but I'm not clear on how they prepared the stock solution of chlorine (2.5). I doubt they used 100% sodium hypochlorite. They're probably using some convention I'm not aware of, and it could probably be figured out with the calculator below.
http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/chlorined3.cgi

[TheYoungOne]

Katadyn Micropur Water Purification Tablets are Chlorine dioxide and they claim to destroys viruses and bacteria in 15 min., Giardia in 30 min. and Cryptosporidium in 4 hrs. However the EPA, CDC, and Ready.gov all say that while bleach is very helpful in purifying water, BOTH iodine and bleach may have a tough time completely killing Crypto in water.

http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drin...infection.html

Another thing to think about is that bleach has a shelf life. After 6 months its starts to get less potent, and a year old bottle can be 20% less effective then a fresh one

http://www.scripps.edu/newsandviews/...13/bleach.html

[swjohnsey]

I was playing with calcium hypochlorite for water purification and decided to test water that was treated with household bleach for residual chlorine. To get sufficient residual in clear water it was taking 2 or 3 drops per pint. This is more than what I usually use. I was alway taught 1 drop/pint clear water, 2 drops/pint cloudy water. I would probably double that now.

[Wise Old Owl]

after several days of drinking the iodine treatment and not knowing as I was in a group a few years back ... I was sick... Iodine is not good for everyone... I carry Micropur now.

[DaTwiztedOne]

thanks for the replys, i went back and searched the site for more posts about water, some interesting reading, so it looks like the tabs in the water at night when they can sit all night and boiling the water during the day to top off bottles looks like the best route to go......

[swjohnsey]

Boiling is not a very good solution.

[DaTwiztedOne]

now why not? everywhere i read it says to bring to a boil for at least 1 minute to kill everything..... what did i miss now?

[swjohnsey]

I works O.K. but it takes lots of time and fuel. Put a quart of water on your stove a time how long it takes to come to a rolling boil. You are gonna stop for water many, many times. I think anything would work better, filter, Aqua Mira, Steripen.

I use bleach when I treat water which is not very often.

[DaTwiztedOne]

ok i see what you are talking about, ive timed it for us (2) it takes 7min on my alcohol stove to boil 4 cups of water...

[Feral Bill]

ok i see what you are talking about, ive timed it for us (2) it takes 7min on my alcohol stove to boil 4 cups of water...

At which point you have a quart of boiling hot water. You now need to wait hours for it to cool.

[Another Kevin]

There are a lot of threads on the subject here on WB. What is both popular and fairly safe:

Aqua Mira drops. These are chlorine dioxide, not elemental chlorine. Used as directed, they are effective against viruses, bacteria, Entamoeba, Giardia, Cryptosporidium. (The literature is somewhat spotty about ClO₂ and Cryptosporidium.) They are extremely lightweight. The disadvantage is that for extensive travel, they're more expensive than the other solutions, and you can't drink right away - they take time to work. You need to wait some minutes after mixing the two-part chemistry before adding it to the water, and then wait 20 minutes (room temperature water) to 4 hours (freezing cold water with heavy Crypto contamination) before drinking. The treated water often has floaties - bits of debris - unless you strain it through a bandana or something.

Polar Pure iodine (discontinued). Effective against viruses, bacteria, Entamoeba. Moderately effective against Giardia. Possibly ineffective against Cryptosporidium. Takes time to work. Requires chemical resupply only very infrequently - one container will surely last a thru-hike. Unlimited shelf life. Used to be extremely inexpensive. The container is glass, so you have to be a little careful. Leaves brown stains if you get it on anything. Imparts an objectionable taste to the water. People with iodine sensitivity or thyroid problems can't use it. It's now virtually unobtainable, owing to a DEA decree that made it unlawful to sell it without onerous paperwork: essentially, elemental iodine is treated as an illegal drug in the US. The manufacturer was forced out of business after the meth labs started buying outfitters' entire stocks of Polar Pure and extracting the iodine for use in meth production.

Filters such as the ones from Sawyer, MSR or Katadyn. Effective against bacteria and all the protozoa. They are ineffective against viruses, but the waterborne virus hazard in the US is minimal. You get to drink immediately. They're heavy - often half a pound to a pound - but often the pump and intake hose make it easier to collect water, and they get rid of floaties, so the weight of a pump filter might be justified. Filters are questionable in winter conditions because you can't let them freeze: if the filter element freezes, it is untrustworthy and must be replaced. They're the method that's least likely to impart an objectionable taste, and some of them - particularly the ones that include activated charcoal post-filters - can actually improve the taste of the water.

Steri-Pen: Effective against viruses, bacteria and protozoa. Works fast. Heavier than drops or tablets, but lighter than a filter. Has a lamp that can break, an electronic package that can fail, and batteries that can go dead. A disconcerting number of people here report failures in the field.

MiOX (discontinued): Another interesting idea that didn't last and is now unobtainable. The idea was that it was a small (penlight-sized) electrolysis rig that made mixed oxidants (chlorine, hypochlorite, chlorine dioxide) in the field. The only chemical supply it needed was table salt. Like the Steri-Pen, it had batteries and electronics that can fail. It's now discontinued.

Tablets of various sorts: Most hikers consider these useless. Either they're ineffective against one or another common organism, or they have a short shelf life, or both. Don't just check the expiration date on the bottle: many tablets have a shorter shelf life after opening, so read the fine print. In particular, iodine tablets that have turned orange or brown are worthless and must be discarded. Chemistry and efficacy vary by brand.

Boiling: Effective against all waterborne organisms. Takes a long time (you have to stop, unpack your stove and cook kit, boil the water, and wait for it to cool enough to drink). Takes a prohibitive amount of fuel in most situations. An exception is winter travel, where snow may be the only available water source. If you're melting snow anyway, you might as well take a few minutes longer and boil the water.

Trusting: A number of posters here claim that, at least on the AT, if you're reasonably careful about your choice of water sources, the hazard from contaminated water is overrated. Nevertheless, a 2003 study of Appalachian Trail hikers found that diarrheal disease is the commonest medical problem limiting a thru-hike, being even a worse scourge than Lyme disease. (It's still not a top reason for quitting: the top reasons cited were injury, lack of time, and psychosocial reasons.) Are you feeling lucky, punk?

What I do: In hot weather, if I expect that I might arrive at a water source thirsty, or if I expect that water sources might be hard to collect from, I carry a filter. Knowing that I can drink moments after getting to water, and that I can suck up water with a hose, is worth the weight to me. If I expect freezing conditions, then the filter stays home and I carry Aqua Mira. If I'm melting snow anyway, I boil the water.

A final note: The chemical methods (drops, Polar Pure, tablets, MiOX) leave a residual in the water that protects it to a certain extent in storage. If you use a filter, a Steri-Pen, or boiling, you have to be careful about never putting anything but clean water into your 'clean' containers - because the water can be recontaminated if it comes into contact with a 'dirty' container. (It's usually pretty elementary to have the discipline to approach this problem: for me, the 'dirty' things are my cookpot (which will be sterilized the next time I use it anyway), my wash bucket if I've brought it, and the 'dirty' side of my filter. Every other water container is 'clean' and never allowed contact with 'dirty' water.

[DaTwiztedOne]

thanks for the help.

[Odd Man Out]

There are a lot of threads on the subject here on WB. What is both popular and fairly safe:
...

Nice summary Kevin. I might add a couple things about filters.

Another advantage not mentioned is that they have the ability to improve the taste of water.

Also, your comments about the filter's hose and their weight don't necessarily apply to the gravity and squeeze filter systems.

[Colter]

...
Trusting: At least on the AT, if you're reasonably careful about your choice of water sources, the hazard from contaminated water is overrated. (Even those who claim to have contracted Giardia are much more likely to have got it from unwashed hands, their own or others'.)...

Another Kevin, that was an outstanding overview of treatment methods, thanks!

I respectfully disagree with the above paragraph, however.

There are several scientific papers that have clearly shown the importance of treating water, some specifically studied the A.T.:

"Health care needs of Appalachian Trail Hikers" ...Methods to purify water need to be used regularly...

"Medical Risks of Wilderness Hiking" In a prospective surveillance study, 334 persons who hiked the Appalachian Trail for at least 7 days (mean [+/- SD] length of hike, 140 +/- 60 days) in 1997 were interviewed. ...Diarrhea is the most common illness limiting long-distance hikers. Hikers should purify water routinely, avoiding using untreated surface water...

"Influence of Hygiene on Gastrointestinal Illness among Wilderness Backpackers" Lack of hygiene, specifically handwashing and cleaning of cookware, should be recognized as a significant contributor to wilderness gastrointestinal illness. Hikers should routinely disinfect water and avoid untreated surface water.

These are all papers who studied what ACTUAL A.T. hikers did, and the results. The papers, according to my reading of the numbers, show that water treatment is MORE important than hygiene, but that BOTH are important. Note that the papers don't say "drink smart" they say to treat water ROUTINELY.

The only study that looked at hiker hand contamination of which I'm aware showed their hands were CLEANER leaving the field than when they started their backpacking trip.

[Another Kevin]

Nice summary Kevin. I might add a couple things about filters.

Another advantage not mentioned is that they have the ability to improve the taste of water.

Also, your comments about the filter's hose and their weight don't necessarily apply to the gravity and squeeze filter systems.

Noted, and updated, thanks!

[Another Kevin]

Another Kevin, that was an outstanding overview of treatment methods, thanks!

I respectfully disagree with the above paragraph, however.

There are several scientific papers that have clearly shown the importance of treating water, some specifically studied the A.T....snip...)

These are all papers who studied what ACTUAL A.T. hikers did, and the results. The papers, according to my reading of the numbers, show that water treatment is MORE important than hygiene, but that BOTH are important. Note that the papers don't say "drink smart" they say to treat water ROUTINELY.

The only study that looked at hiker hand contamination of which I'm aware showed their hands were CLEANER leaving the field than when they started their backpacking trip.

Thanks for the citations, and I've updated the post to a stronger condemnation of the 'trusting' method.

I note that what's likely important with respect to hand sanitation is other hikers' hand sanitation, and not letting their hands touch your food (e.g., reaching into your gorp bag). The bugs on your own hands, you already have.