I agree... it's so confusing! Misunderstandings seem to abound currently..... blah!Originally Posted by rainmaker
Ron, before making that decision please consider all those who support and appreciate what you do.
in 2011 I stayed with you at the Budget in Franklin. You picked up our group at the trail and brought us to town. The you took us to the outfitters and grocery store. The next morning you took us back to the trail, all for the cost of a room, which I believe was $40. I appreciate what you did. Thank you!
"Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011
I stayed at the Budget Inn in Franklin on my 2010 thru. I got to town via my thumb, but took the shuttle back to the trail and enjoyed Ron's commentary along the way. Ron is very knowledgeable about the trail and tells a good story. This is an unfortunate turn for future hikers. Another example of "endangered services" that ALDHA discusses. Back in the 70's there was not the infrastructure along the trail that exists today. I am afraid that hiker bad behavior may result in undoing a lot of the good will that has built up over the years and unfortunately many hikers expect. I am sure that many have witnessed other episodes that don't paint the AT hiker in a good light. As I posted last year, some hikers think that they are rock stars because they are attempting to hike the length of the AT, and you know how rock stars behave.
More walking, less talking.
I'm sorry that Ron's been subject to such boorish and ungrateful behavior that he's had to make this decision but I understand. He's been more patient than most of us would have been.
Regarding paying for shuttles, on my Colorado Trail thruhike, I stayed in two excellent and well-known hostels - Simple Lodge in Salida and the Leadville Hostel. Both very hiker friendly. And both charged a reasonable fee for shuttling, even if you were a guest. No problems whatsoever.
Last edited by Cookerhiker; 04-07-2013 at 10:26.
You know Wolf after reading your post, my first thought was to one-up you and say let's get rid of the Companion and ask AWOL to stop his guide - let hikers find their own ways like the old days. But of course, that punishes the X% who don't cause problems or act like entitled a-holes. A fleeting thought.
Thank you for every thing you've done and I'm sure will continue to do Ron. You are one of the folks that makes he trail a special place.
In 1999, I walked about 4 miles in rain down to the RV campground and phoned into Franklin to get a cab. (Nobody was picking up a soaked hiker.). Franklin was still a great memory. I'm sure folks who have to work a little more will still appreciate Franklin, maybe even more.
If people spent less time being offended and more time actually living, we'd all be a whole lot happier!
i hear ya. i do meet some wonderful folks that walk through damascus
Would also hurt many section hikers. Some of us section hikers are nice and not too nasty!You know Wolf after reading your post, my first thought was to one-up you and say let's get rid of the Companion and ask AWOL to stop his guide - let hikers find their own ways like the old days. But of course, that punishes the X% who don't cause problems or act like entitled a-holes. A fleeting thought.
I never thought Ron didn't charge. As he absolutely should have been doing all along. A friend and I had him shuttle us up to Wayah Bald in 2008, he told us the fee upfront, and we paid. No argument. We didn't get as far as Fontana, as we'd planned, and called for a ride from Stecoah Gap back to Franklin - - he sent someone and we paid. Period. We stayed at his hotels and paid whatever he said the cost was. We thoroughly appreciated all he did for us.
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
As a section hiker myself, how could I not agree?
There is SO much information in these guidebooks about what's ahead that I can't see how it doesn't take at least some of the fun out of a hike. You really don't have to think very much - just walk to wherever the guidebook says to whatever it is you need.
I'm waiting on Fodor's to buy rights to "The AT Guide" and publish their own travel guide.
Hmm and how the heck is this Ron's fault? He does not need to keep up with other motels that may change their policy? Thats not his problem. Where in Neel Gap does it say anything is free? Nothing is free dude. You have to pay just like any other tourist. I may not agree with LW on just about anything, but he is right, shut all of the hiker rate crap down. Thru's choose to be unemployed. You dont ever see Hostel owners come on here and complain about the countless theft's, getting ripped off and having needy, entitled thruhiker's whine and complain. See, its also the stuff we dont hear about. I have friend that was hiking near franklin and almost froze to death. Guess who drove out to get hiim in the wee hours of the morning? How is that for "fleecing"? Get a life Boogie or do everyone a favor, and go home.
You know there, there's something to that. I spent an enormous amount of time preparing for my would-be Allegheny Trail thruhike in 2010 because of the minimal resources e.g. no guides to services, little-to-no shuttlers, limited offerings in "trail towns" such that they were. And I enjoyed it.There is SO much information in these guidebooks about what's ahead that I can't see how it doesn't take at least some of the fun out of a hike. You really don't have to think very much - just walk to wherever the guidebook says to whatever it is you need....
Last edited by Cookerhiker; 04-07-2013 at 12:47.
Chaco, thanks and for all of you I have met, and all of my hiker friends I have met thru thru the years. I am in Tulsa. Oklahoma on business but I covered shuttlers befor I left. Two are working out sorder bad and my wife is doing most of the shuttling since Friday, I will be home later today to take over and let her be mom. Yes O want to continue helping hikers, but if I do I am just going to tighten the screws and so no to disrespectful people.
I don;t run to other motels for pick up because of conflict in my scedule. Last week I had a hiker call me and begged for a shuttle from Microtel on Sat for a Sunday morning shuttle. Said he called all and everyone said no. Please I got to catch my group. I agreed to pick him up at 7:30 so I could be back for my 9am shuttle. I told him about my guest shuttle and had to be back to Franklin by 8:30, he said. I will be ready to go straight back to Rock gap at 7:30
I arrived and called his cell and he wasn't even out of the bed. Then he forgot fuel and wanted to stop at 3 Eagles. I had to go by and show the fool that they opened at noon on Sunday. Then he ask to stop at Burger King for something to go. I eaited in the car and he ordered and set down to eat, I went in and ask to come and get his pak. It was already 8:20 and so I was late by 15 minutes but my guest understood.
One of my shuttlers picked up section hikers at the NOC a few days late and said they run into a hiker begging fuel because that sorry Ron Haven wouldn't wait for him to go into the outfitter, I had a lady threating me with aldha a few days laterbecause I wouldn't come for her at Microtel at her demand. Since I have had hikers demand me come to Hampton Inn, Colonial Inn, Comfort Inn, Nights Inn and other peoples home. Where does it end with these people.
If I do continue next year I am not allowing anyone in my vehicles except my guest, I will provide a list of shuttlers online, and I did tell San Ran had rooms fro $39.99 with a free shuttle. He said: people were calling wantind picked up at NOC, Fontana, Yellow fork Gap and othe places. I stated every time he anly picks up at Stecoah. He got tired of the crap and stopped it. Ony problem was is he didn't call me. Sorry Boogie but I didn't know. I will stop giving any info to hikers. This is why they have guide books.
But personally at Neels Gap these are my friends and I think they do a great job but nothing is free there, Winton, Pirate, Jack, and Lumpy are all working hard with the truth and for you and all hikers.
Last edited by Ron Haven; 04-07-2013 at 09:10.
+1.
I’ve benefitted from the generosity of Neel Gap shuttlers twice – in one case a free 36-mile round trip.
I’m not writing this to defend the good people who have been maligned. I’m writing to encourage people new to the trail not to make my mistakes. I’m a selfish, self-centered, pessimistic cynic who expected the worst from people along the AT, especially business people. Wrong. (I wrote the details in a long version of these experiences here). This includes people I was paying, who went beyond what I was paying for, and people who could have ethically charged me when I was in difficulty and did not. I have had only one bad experience with an employee who I hope no longer works for the hiker-oriented business involved, but in every other case I have been amazed at how helpful and ethical people along the AT have been.
Sailor
Well, your patience is far greater than mine. I might have given five minutes around 7:30 to allow for a watch not being correctly set, but that's about it. Plus, I wouldn't have indulged the side trips given the prior conversation about scheduling and timing for picking up your regular guests.
I think it is wise for you to put boundaries in place and adjust your services to place more emphasis on family. It is just unfortunate that a few demanding, entitled, ungrateful bad apples cause you and others such direct hardship and spoil service availability for everyone else all along the AT.
I was most grateful for your services in November 2009 as I neared completion of my SOBO thru hike, as your stellar reputation preceded my visit and my experiences simply validated all of the great things I had beard beforehand. Best wishes to you and your family in all that you do.
+1 Ask the cost first.
Also talking **** about somebody who has going to great lengths for hikers since before I had hair under my arms, without anything to substantiate it, is lousy.
It seems like the trail is overrun with entitled tourists who will do this trail and this trail only, one time to cross it off some list. These a-holes don't even seem to like hiking ( i.e. I am not going to do Amicola 'cause it doesn't count, I'm going to stay in town every two GD days). Dirtbag freeloaders and criminals have ruined Everest, and are well on their way to ruining the AT. I'm starting to like the Ouachita better than the AT just there ain't any A-holes on it.
Chuck, is that you whining again? The cadence and tempo, sure are the same.
Ron, the problem is your too nice a guy and try to help out everyone. Now it's gotten out of hand with some hikers thinking your their personal (and free) taxi service. The solution is simple, be a little more cold hearted. Make it clear that the free shuttle (but donations are welcome -have a tip jar) is from Winding Stairs Gap to one of your motels or the outfitter ONLY and ONLY at the scheduled times. If someone needs a ride some place else or a different time, they can find and pay for a shuttle from some one else. End of problem.
RE: Hiker rates: Why hikers get to pay less then everyone else is a mystery. It's not like we're less trouble then the average tourist. We leave a lot of garbage and bring in a lot of mud and dirt. But then, for many of these little motels, I supose any buisness is good buisness and if it weren't for hikers, they'd no longer exist at all. I also suspect that the "hiker" rate in many cases is the normal rate. Or maybe more in some cases.
As for companion and guide book buisness listings, sure it was fun back in the day going into a town with out a clue as to what one would find or where one could stay. But I'm sure all the buisnesss are more then happy to be listed in the books as it helps direct buisness their way. The guide book town and buisness info is a win-win for everyone.
Every one who works in the service industry knows thier going to have to deal with A-holes from time to time. You just have to hope there aren't too many of them. The hard part is resisting smacking them on the side of the head to knock some sense into them
Last edited by Slo-go'en; 04-07-2013 at 12:19.
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Hotels have all sorts of discount rates for different classes of people: Seniors, Government workers, AAA, etc. If they choose to give hikers a special rate, that's their business decision. It always pays to ask for a better rate. If the business chooses not to offer one, pay full freight or leave.
"It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss
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