Go-Lite and Jardine

[Jack Tarlin]

Interesting comments from Ray Jardine on the Go-Lite company; should be of particular interest to anyone about to buy Go-Lite stuff...

http://www.rayjardine.com/essays/golitesucks.shtml

[MOWGLI]

Interesting, but....

Mr. Jardine writes "My feelings and Jenny's feelings for this individual and his company and all others are completely neutral."

But then he goes and names this particular page on is website, golitesucks.shtml

Kinda makes the claim about being "neutral" ring a bit hollow.

[Footslogger]

Well ...to me anyway, Ray hit it right on the head when he attributed the fiasco to "greed". One of the things that caused me to walk away years ago from an aspiring career in business was the basis on which many businesses today operate - GREED. Not to in any way justify or condone it's existence, I think it's pretty difficult NOT to get sucked into the world of greed once you find yourself with a saleable idea/product in this society.

I don't know the Jardine history/story very well ...but that's my take on the whole thing.

'Slogger

[Lanthar Mandragoran]

wow... that's extremely interesting... I'd recommend Ray contact a lawyer... hell, he can give any proceeds to charity, but, IMO companies need to be punished for illegal business practices, and if what ray says is true, well then GoLite needs to feel the sting of law... but then again, I don't know how much 'proof' there is...

[TOW]

all of us should boycott them, that is really horsecrap, i wonder if the outfitters along the trail are aware of this????

[Jack Tarlin]

I started this thread because I thought it'd be of interest to lots of folks...... I'm not taking sides here.

In re. to Wanderer's comments about a boycott of Go-Lite:

1. Keep in mind we've heard one side of this dispute. There may well be another. In fact, there may be several other realities here: In my experience, when there's a dispute in hiker world, it's not a black and white thing. In fact, it's A,B, and C. There's side A, which is one guy's perspective and beef; there's side B which is the other guy's, and then there's side C, which is what actually happened.
2. Jardine acknowledges (twice I think) that it was his decision to essentially sign away his rights and to give away his good name. He hints that he was pressured or browbeaten into doing this, but remember, it was HIS decision.
3. He claims that his primary interest was in getting his innovative light-weight designs out to the most possible folks, and that his interest was never financial. Has this philosophy changed now that Go-Lite is a very succesful company? Is that why he's pissed now? Where I come from, when folks say "It's not about the money," it's time to check on the location of your wallet.

In short, this reminds me of stories about successful novelists who sell their stories to Hollywood, and then complain about how their "children" have been ruined as a result. People like Ann Rice, John Irving, and many other well-known writers have gone ballistic about what's become of their "creations." But they didn't mind the royalties, checks, or pubicity that came first.

These folks elected to sell their work to Hollywood,and benefitted handsomely, both thru publicity and financial compensation.

Same for Jardine. He sold out his work and good name,and now he doesn't like the result. He might have a leitimate beef. He might not. But calling for a boycott of Go-Lite when folks have heard just one side of the story seems to me to be pre-mature. And just maybe, wrong.

[jackiebolen]

It's definitely made me think twice about buying a new Go-Lite product. I didn't realize the extent of this companie's "sketchy factor."

[Lanthar Mandragoran]

Jack,
What you're saying is somewhat what I was getting at. IF, in fact, the story is as Jardine portray's it, he really needs to call a lawyer, regardless of his financial wishes. If it's grey area, he should probably still call and get the matter resolved. I'm not saying the originaly contract was wrong, but it seems that stuff later may be wrong. All depends on how the contract is worded and what the lawyers say.

IMO, if nothing else, this story encourages me to continue supporting 'cottage' suppliers whenever possible.

[Mags]

I don't go buy Go-Lite for one reason only: there are usually less expensive and/or better alternatives available. I did buy a Wisp on closeout because it was the least expensive (and lightest) of the types avail. The Wisp is no longer made and was replaced by a heavier jacket.

Go-Lite is a bit like Northface: it is the brand name many casual outdoor type people reconginze...and it is favored by sponsored atheletes (who probably get the schwag for free). I see this happening Boulder (where GoLite is based). Go-Lite is Northface...Mont Bell is Mounain Hardware.


Bottom line: If you like the gear..buy it. If you don't, then don't. Just be aware of other alternatives.

As Jack said, there are three sides to the issue. Remember, Coup and Jardine are both very strong and opinionated personalities. Suspect people like that tend to bump heads. Heck...it happens in our own little on-line world, too.

[Jack Tarlin]

Personally, I never bought or used Go-Lite products, but this had nothing to with Ray Jardine or his connection to the company.

I simply didn't think they were very good.

[Nean]

I know Ray- Bless his heart. I've always thought he had problems. Ego Power Control, Ray should know. Poor Ray got screwed in the begining, the middle and the end? He has been down that road before and should have known better. The Ray I know would be impossible to work with, Bless his heart. To understand a bit about the man just look at his idea of "neutral"

[ATSeamstress]

Did Jardine have any of these agreements in writing?

[SGT Rock]

I agree with Mags, I don't own anything by GoLite because there are better alternatives for better made, lower price gear. I also read Ray Jardine's book, while it does have some good info in it, I wold sooner recommend someone to check out websites like Charles Lindsey's because the information is FREE and because it has a board like this, you can get multiple opinions on lightweight style and gear and do so in an interactive nature instead of gospel and verse by a guru.

Oh, and to add to this, I think Ray Actually started distancing himself from them around 2002 or so because of the quality and design deviation problems. This row has been sort of public for a few years.

[neo]

i am with ray jardine,golite exploited his name,golite is over rated,over priced
and to freaking heavy to be ultra lite,only the golite breeze pack is from his original design,and a couple of their tarps,golite sucks neo

[neo]

Interesting comments from Ray Jardine on the Go-Lite company; should be of particular interest to anyone about to buy Go-Lite stuff...

http://www.rayjardine.com/essays/golitesucks.shtml

golite aint worth a crap in my book,i want to buy one of ray,s quilt kits
you could not give me any golite crap neo

[minnesotasmith]

Do you have the URL for Charles Lindsey's site?

[Heater]

Do you have the URL for Charles Lindsey's site?

After I read his post I googled and only found links that were from '98.

If he has a current site, I would like to check it out as well.

[Doctari]

Now if we could only get viewpoint #3 maybe we would have the whole story. Here is what is on the GoLight site:

" Dear GoLite Customers,

Since we founded GoLite, all of us here have lived by a Mission & Core Values statement that we developed together as a team. Integrity & Honesty are our first core values for a reason: these values infuse everything we do here. A recent web posting by Ray Jardine has raised questions about this commitment to honesty & integrity, & the following posting is an open letter to the public in response to the Jardine web posting.

GoLite entered into a business relationship with Ray Jardine in 1998 whereby Mr. Jardine was paid a percentage-of-sales royalty for designing eleven of GoLite’s original products. In March 2004, GoLite ended our contract with Mr. Jardine due to repeated, direct violations of this contract by Mr. Jardine.

The detailed communications between GoLite & Mr. Jardine outlining the reasons behind the ending of this business relationship, including Mr. Jardine’s final communication to GoLite on March 31, 2004, can be viewed by clicking here. Also included at the end of this attachment is a scan of Mr. Jardine’s May 2005 web posting.

To summarize these communications: on March 11, 2004, we emailed & mailed a memo to Ray Jardine asking him to cease his clear violation of the contract. Weeks went by with no response, & we were forced to make public the fact that our contract with Mr. Jardine was de facto null & void. We ceased production on all “Ray-Way” products, removed language referring to the Jardines from marketing materials, & informed our customers & the news media. Seventeen days later we received a note from Mr. Jardine asking us to re-look at his website. The website language that had precipitated the March 11 memo was removed, but with no response from Mr. Jardine for weeks, we had already made public the ending of our contract. We sent the second March 31 note saying so. That same day, we received Mr. Jardine’s final communication to us, a concise apology that also indicated that we had reached closure & that our business dealings together were concluded. Fourteen months later (May 2005), Mr. Jardine posted a libelous & factually false web posting entitled “GoLite Sucks” that can be seen, in its entirety, at the end of the attached communications between GoLite & Mr. Jardine.

Mr. Jardine’s recent web posting is deeply saddening for all of us because we have viewed his philosophies on lightweight backcountry travel as our inspiration since GoLite was founded. Mr. Jardine’s charges that we are a corrupt, big company & that we have been “lining our pockets” is wrong on all three counts. GoLite is a privately-held company, so we are not required to share our financial information publicly. However, the Jardines’ web posting is so packed with lies, misrepresentations, slander, & libel that we feel it is important that we share the following: we are a small, family-owned business struggling, David-&-Goliath-like, to survive against large, entrenched competition in the outdoor industry. We have personally sunk every penny we ever earned before GoLite into the company as well as investments from another family member to make GoLite work so that we could lighten people's loads & so that we could change the hearts & minds of a generation about what is really needed to enjoy the outdoors. Our team here has dedicated countless hours over the past six years trying to spark the "lightweight revolution" & to bring to the market excellent lightweight products. Through 2004, we sold over 1900 copies of Ray Jardine’s book, “Beyond Backpacking,” with no margin (i.e. losing money on every copy), because we viewed his book as an important contribution to the collection of outdoor literature & as a service to our customers.

In complete alignment with our company’s values, from our first contact with the Jardines in 1998, we have in every way acted fairly & honorably towards them. We have also always spoken & written of the Jardines with respect & deference. More relevantly, GoLite fulfilled 100% of both the letter & spirit of what we agreed to with Mr. Jardine. Mr. Jardine, however, did not do so.

We regret that Mr. Jardine’s web posting has forced us to take something that was a purely private business matter public, but we have understandably received many concerned emails & calls from customers since Mr. Jardine put up the recent web posting, so we now feel that it is vital that you, our valued customers, know the truth of what transpired in 2004 & so that you can know that it is Mr. Jardine who is lacking in integrity.

At this point, we do not plan on taking any formal action such as a lawsuit against Mr. Jardine for libel & breach of contract - how would that serve the ultra-lite movement? We also do not plan on any further public communication about this matter: we have placed on the GoLite website all of the relevant documents & communications necessary for you to make up your own mind about the veracity (or lack thereof) of Mr. Jardine’s web posting. All of us at GoLite feel that there are so many other more important things to focus our energy on, like getting people outdoors & lightening their loads!

We thank you all for your business in the past, & we look forward to continuing to lighten your loads in the years to come.

Sincerely,

Demetri and Kim Coupounas
GoLite
July 1, 2005 "


Makes you go "HMMMMM" don't it.

Doctari.

[Heater]

Now if we could only get viewpoint #3 maybe we would have the whole story. Here is what is on the GoLight site:

" Dear GoLite Customers,

Since we founded GoLite, all of us here have lived by a Mission & Core Values statement that we developed together as a team. Integrity & Honesty are our first core values for a reason: these values infuse everything we do here. A recent web posting by Ray Jardine has raised questions about this commitment to honesty & integrity, & the following posting is an open letter to the public in response

Interesting! Hmmmmm... Greed vs Ego.

Does anyone win?

My answer is YES! Screw the both of 'em.

We win. They lose.

[TakeABreak]

So, I guess this whole thing explains a lot to me, personally I have owned any golite equipment. But, I have heard of a lot of unhappy people out there, who have been duped into buying it, which has made me wonder over the years, because I heard Ray, was behind the gear and he is well known to be an honest and upright person and an avid backpacker to say the least.

I also, have thought that the gear was over priced, to quite honest.