Trail runners and traction

[Coffee]

I picked up a discounted pair of Brooks Cascadia 7 to try out trail runners. I did a 10 mile trail run with a light hydration pack and found the shoes to be far superior to my road running shoes on mixed/rocky terrain. So far so good. But I'm also thinking about using these trail runners instead of my heavy Asolo leather hiking boots for a number of trips this year including a JMT thru hike. So yesterday, I hiked nine miles with the Cascadias in SNP through a number of small streams and on some rocky terrain. I had a 25 pound pack on even though this was a day hike just to see how my feet would react.

Overall, the lower weight on my feet was GREAT and I developed no blisters or hot spots to speak of (but I don't have these problems in my boots either). However, the traction on rocky surfaces especially when wet left something to be desired compared to my Asolo boots. My question is whether traction is a concern for those using trail runners instead of hiking boots and, if so, whether there are any trail runners that have better traction than the Cascadias while still remaining lightweight.

I think that the bottom line is that I love the trail runners 90% of the time and wished that I had boots on for 10% of the time. Normally 90/10 would be a no brainer but there are some safety implications involved. Thanks.

[hikerboy57]

Ive been using la sportiva raptors that have sticky climbing rubber.excellent traction.

[Southerner]

I used Innov8 Roclite 295s on my through-hike and found that I had superior (in fact far superior) traction with them as compared to any previous boots. The only times I fell, even in southern Maine, were because of bad footing I selected and not equipment failure. You may need to consider shoes with a more aggressive tread and softer rubber that will grip better, but also tends to wear out faster (though I only went through two pairs of Innov8s on my through).

[FarmerChef]

I used Innov8 Roclite 295s on my through-hike and found that I had superior (in fact far superior) traction with them as compared to any previous boots. The only times I fell, even in southern Maine, were because of bad footing I selected and not equipment failure. You may need to consider shoes with a more aggressive tread and softer rubber that will grip better, but also tends to wear out faster (though I only went through two pairs of Innov8s on my through).

Yup. More aggressive tread is right on. I used to use New Balance road runners but they didn't grip worth anything when the rock was wet. So I transitioned to a pair of Merrill Mix Master's and love them. My wife got a pair as well and we now have much less trouble on wet rock. The difference was a big, knobby tread instead of a more traditional flat tread. The shoes are still lightweight (I can twist them completely) but a bit sturdier for trail running.

[ytsuejam]

Inov8 X-Talon 195's have awesome traction in any condition/surface. I even used mine for the most recent Tough Mudder here. Super light,dries quick and the out sole is dead on perfect. With all that being said I have really wide feet and they are a little narrow for my taste so I have their Trailrok 245's on route... supposed to be wider.

[RockDoc]

You are correct about cascades, they don't have deep enough lugs for backpacking, or trail running on wet trails. I've slipped and fell in them several times while trail running, once injuring my hip for several months. My wife wore them to do the AT in Maine, but we learned early on that it was not a good choice and now all we use is deep lug leather boots for the AT. She fell so many times in Maine that she developed a shin infection and had to quit at White House Landing, while I went on to do Mt K. She did return two years later and we repeated the HMW without any problems, but wearing decent boots.
I must have a dozen pairs of trail running shoes, and the deepest lug ones are Golite. But almost anything is better than Cascadias, IMO.

[MuddyWaters]

The innov8 shoes I use (flyroc 310) have better traction than most boots I think. The soles are lugged deeper and with wider spacing to allow edges to actually grip. I was actually thinking about this on a recent trip where I noticed my lug marks were much deeper and more distinct in dirt than my companions with boots, and that I also had much better traction descending steep rocks as well. They are not a particularly sticky rubber however, and I dont have a comparison on wet rocks.

[topshelf]

I have a pair of the cascadia 8's. Im surprised at how quickly they lose traction on wet hard surfaces.

I think the rubber is too hard for the aggressive pattern and doesnt provide enough surface area contact to provide grip. I feel like for 98% of instances regular running shoes/cross trainers are a best option even on trails. Something like a Brooks Adrenaline or Ghost are my favorite shoes to run trails with. Ive never had an issue with traction in these shoes, even in snow.

[Carry-On]

I did around 1900 miles of my AT thru in Brooks Cascadia 7s. I agree with the others. The grip was lacking compared to the boots my hiking companions wore (Oboz and Keens). I was much slower on the wet rocks, for fear of slipping, though most of my falls I think were caused by reasons other than traction. They also were a bit too flexible in the sole and I used blue Superfeet insoles and the pain decreased. However, with that combo I never got a blister.

Now I am using Treksta Evolution trail runners and loving the better traction, at least on dry slickrock. I haven't tried them on wet rocks yet but they are already an improvement and I would have loved to have them in Maine instead of the Brooks.

[Dogwood]

Ive been using la sportiva raptors that have sticky climbing rubber.excellent traction.

YES, IMO too, the new La Sportiva Ultra Raptors do indeed have outstanding traction on varied terrain including slippery slabs. I think, as LS has advertised, they do offer BETTER than avg traction with their various lugs and different sole materials. Unfortunately, they don't work well long term with my high volume WIDE forefeet. If these fit your feet and hiking style I can't see why they wouldn't work for a JMT thru in mid/late summer and early fall. Consider that, IMO, most PCTers roll with light wt trail runners through the Sierras(most of the PCT is the JMT) often encountering early June snow fields and some ice and do fine with the load you're anticipating hauling on the JMT. Don't know what you are referring to when you mention safety implications though. I think you stated on previous threads you're doing the JMT in July/Aug possibly into Sept which in great likelyhood will mean a drier tread for the JMT. You should be good with the light wt trail runners barring any significant medical or physical issues such as with your musculoskeleton(joints, back, tendons, hips, etc).

[Dogwood]

The JMT, when you're anticpating your thru, is IMHO, a MUCH drier trail underfoot overall than the AT.

[kidchill]

Just some thoughts based on my experiences with footwear. When I first started hiking I hit Dick's and bought a pair of Merrel Trail Runners. I didn't feel they had proper support, and the traction on wet surfaces was definitely lacking! I then purchased a pair of Garmount Momentum Snow GTX boots, and they friggin rock! They're considered a mid-weight boot (size 13 pair weighs 3lbs 8oz-self-weighed), gortex, and fit comfortably. The only time I ever lost traction was climbing up-hill on ice. They are, however, too warm to wear in summer weather. After that I tried some Salomon Fastpacker 3D boots. I thought they were awesome...significantly lighter then boots and they act more like shoes...until I put them through the paces on loose gravel, mud, and wet rock. Once again, the grip was absolutely lacking. Determined to find better grip, I bought a pair of Inov8s with sticky rubber! Unfortunately, I had to order them online, and the sizing was off! The grip was amazing, but the shoes were slightly too large, and I felt that I had too much lateral motion in them. Just before I left for my thru-hike, a friend of mine recommended the Salomon XA Pro 3D ultras. Ultimately, I left with these. The wet rock grip was absolutely horrible! Even with slow, deliberate foot placement, I was still slipping all over the place. ME and NH pretty much tore these to shreds and I picked up a pair of Salomon XR Missions. These became my goto shoe! They're actually trail/road hybrids and perform very well, even on wet rock! Now, this isn't to say that they are perfect, but the grip was significantly better then my previous Salomons. I ripped a huge hole in them and had to settle for a pair of Brooks Cascadias in CT. Again, the wet rock performance was horrid. It's nice that you got them on sale, but I personally feel like they are as bad as the XA Pro's I started my hike with. After getting back home, I quickly purchased another pair of Salomon XR missions. Also, while on the trail, I recommended them to another SOBO thru, and that's what he finished the trail with. You may ask why I stuck with Salomon after trying so many and not liking the grip, well, they fit me perfectly! I have a low-volume foot, and they seem to really fit my feet well. That being said, if I find a dealer that has some Inov8s with sticky rubber, I would really like to get a good fitting pair and give them a proper go. The only problem with sticky rubber compounds is that they tend to wear down quicker.

[Plodderman]

I use Brooks Cascadia 7 for trail running this summer and have not had any problems yet. I switched from new balance this year and have used the New Balance trail runners and for many miles on the AT. I am heading out on a backpack trip in August but I do not think the Brooks shoes would hold up with a pack. They are nice for runnng and day hikes but I do not trust them for a week out on the trial. I will say this the Brooks Cascadia 7 are the most comfortable trail running shoe I have ever had but they are not much for support but for a backpack trip I am going back to New Balance.

[1azarus]

I am quietly chuckling...i usually have a strong opinion about everything hiking related, but find myself scratching my head over this thread. I'm on my third pair of cascadias now and have found them to be perfect backpacking companions with orange superfeet. Have used them in all conditions with a pack weight of up to around 22 pounds maximum. They work just fine for hiking, but maybe you all are right that there is something better out there. Just don't even think of trying to talk me into anything that weighs more than 2 pounds!

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[Marta]

I'm a Cascadia fan, too. Been wearing them in their many incarnations since my thru in 2006. Still wearing them today. In the dead of winter, when dealing with crusty snow and very cold weather, I switch to leather boots with aggressive tread. In the heat of summer, I wear Chacos.

[topshelf]

I am quietly chuckling...i usually have a strong opinion about everything hiking related, but find myself scratching my head over this thread. I'm on my third pair of cascadias now and have found them to be perfect backpacking companions with orange superfeet. Have used them in all conditions with a pack weight of up to around 22 pounds maximum. They work just fine for hiking, but maybe you all are right that there is something better out there. Just don't even think of trying to talk me into anything that weighs more than 2 pounds!

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

Well the OP starts by talking about going out on a trail run. So I was referencing my experience in the same. Mine do just fine for hiking, but during a run they lose traction with the added pressures exerted as well as the added pace. Which makes me wonder how close the cascadias are to losing traction during a hike on slippery hard surfaces.

To me if they dont pass a trail running test...they are trail runners...they dont pass has hiking shoes either. I still prefer more standard cross trainers as my hiking shoes and trail runners.

[Coffee]

I used my Cascadias today for 16 miles with about 31 pounds of total pack weight. Several stream crossings. I can't say that traction is that great in water but overall I was impressed with how they held up. As of this moment I'll probably stick with the Cascadias for the JMT if for no other reason than that I've trained with them so far. 34 pounds is my max projected weight in pack and that's just for a couple of days after the largest resupply. Most of the time I should have 23-28 pounds.

[rocketsocks]

I am quietly chuckling...i usually have a strong opinion about everything hiking related, but find myself scratching my head over this thread. I'm on my third pair of cascadias now and have found them to be perfect backpacking companions with orange superfeet. Have used them in all conditions with a pack weight of up to around 22 pounds maximum. They work just fine for hiking, but maybe you all are right that there is something better out there. Just don't even think of trying to talk me into anything that weighs more than 2 pounds!

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

I'm a Cascadia fan, too. Been wearing them in their many incarnations since my thru in 2006. Still wearing them today. In the dead of winter, when dealing with crusty snow and very cold weather, I switch to leather boots with aggressive tread. In the heat of summer, I wear Chacos.

I tried on a pair of these tonight...Cascadias, "I like em" and will wait for my current sneaks to wear out, and look for them to go on sale.

[fredmugs]

I bought some Hoka's for the Long Trail and although they provide superior cushion against rocks and roots they aren't very good on slippery terrain compared to my Merrill Moab Ventilators. I doubt I'll ever wear boots again.

[Just Bill]

While a lot of folk's poo-poo anything having to do with a "Minimalist" I've had very good luck with Altra shoes. For anything more than a fifteen mile day most of them are a bust, but the Altra's are zero drop, wide toe box, and include a few other minimalist features without going light on the cushion we need to backpack. I used Altra Torin's on my last hike, they were great, even though they are considered a "road" shoe. I had a few, and I mean a handful, of slips and slides in them but overall was pretty happy with them on a recent hike from Springer to Hot Springs. There were a few times in the Smokies' that they were a little slippery, mostly due to monsoon rain conditions. I just got a pair of the new Lone Peak's and I've got about twenty miles in on them so far. Torin's are super cush, but the Lone Peak's have only slightly less cush, but add a rock plate and way more grab so I am going that route. About a month and/or 400 miles and I made the transion to zero drop with no regrets. Ryan Jordan at backpacking light is a huge fan and they are supposed to release their full review of them soon if you have access to their site. I've gone though twenty odd different shoes in the last year and the Altra's are by far the best I've found if you're willing to put in the time to transition(sore calves is the main symptom)