Scout Graffiti:Split from Thruhiker Vandalism

[Therunner1Guy]

This is a serious question, and not meant to offend; are you this paranoid about every other contact your child has or is this a particular vendetta you have for scouting? H

ow about male teachers with no kids? They couldn't possibly have a passion for educating children, it must be something nefarious... What are they hiding!

I feel bad for your kid, they will miss out on a lot of good opportunities because of your fear.

I have no vendetta against scouts, I don’t even know any scouts. J I would make a distinction between a teacher and a volunteer in a Boy Scout troop. If you or anyone else feels comfortable with the Non-Parent scout master, then go for it. I do not. My opinion is based on my son being six years old. If he is 15 years old, then my concerns would be less as he would be far more likely to stand up and say something if he felt something inappropriate was going on.
I mean it’s not like scout masters ever do anything inappropriate, guess these kids didn’t miss out on those good opportunities you mentioned….
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/03/trial-claims-boy-scouts-hushed-up-cases-of-suspected-child-molesters/1
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2012/10/26/former-scoutmaster-admits-molested-boys/ZJ0XKNdctokeAmkZtYCzKN/story.html
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/10/nj_man_claims_he_was_sexually.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_sex_abuse_cases
http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=132549

[Therunner1Guy]

I will be honest, I will probably remain as a Scout leader after my boys leave the Troop. Would that be a suspicious thing?

I would say yes.

[Don H]

So you would rather have your son in a troop with a 1 year Scoutmaster who has a son in the troop as opposed to a 10 year SM who had 2 sons in the troop but both aged out? One could reasonably assume that the 10 year guy has more training and experience working with kids in the outdoor setting. How about an Assistant Scoutmaster, does he have to have a boy in the troop to make you comfortable?

When I was a kid in Scouts my first SM did not have children old enough to be a Scout, he moved before they were old enough to join (he actually hiked a bit of the AT with me on my thru). My second SM stayed in the position for 27 years! They both spent countless hours, spent plenty of their own money and gave up time with their families just to help a bunch of kids for nothing in return. I am grateful that they did and have told them so.

It's you and your son's loss if you assume that everyone who works with kids other than their own have evil intents.

[mfleming]

Originally Posted by mfleming

Any one hear from the Scout Council?

I haven't yet, but I don't have much hopes. My own Scout Council barely answers my emails :-)



Unless they need money

[MDSection12]

I have no vendetta against scouts, I don’t even know any scouts. J I would make a distinction between a teacher and a volunteer in a Boy Scout troop. If you or anyone else feels comfortable with the Non-Parent scout master, then go for it. I do not. My opinion is based on my son being six years old. If he is 15 years old, then my concerns would be less as he would be far more likely to stand up and say something if he felt something inappropriate was going on.
I mean it’s not like scout masters ever do anything inappropriate, guess these kids didn’t miss out on those good opportunities you mentioned….
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/03/trial-claims-boy-scouts-hushed-up-cases-of-suspected-child-molesters/1
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2012/10/26/former-scoutmaster-admits-molested-boys/ZJ0XKNdctokeAmkZtYCzKN/story.html
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/10/nj_man_claims_he_was_sexually.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_sex_abuse_cases
http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=132549

First, before I respond I'd like to say that you are the parent and I would never want to take away your right to make those calls. You want the best for your kid and while I disagree with your stance on this issue I still respect the sentiment.

With that said, I do still think it's sad. People that give up their own free time to support a cause they believe in are automatically child molesters, or worse; should be treated that way even if they aren't? It's a sad day when that's the norm, but I fear we are already there.

I can list off news articles for a thousand things you need to protect your kid from... But the reality is the news doesn't tell us what's out there; it tells us what to fear, because fear sells. Managing risk when raising a child must be unbelievably daunting, but shutting out good people and good experiences because of a few news articles is sad.

Talk to your kid, talk to your troop leaders and mitigate the risks you perceive, sure, but don't write off the whole opportunity because of irrational fears. If we did that what would be left today? What organization or pastime hasn't been sullied by some bad eggs?

[Therunner1Guy]

It's you and your son's loss if you assume that everyone who works with kids other than their own have evil intents.

It's no loss. Boy Scouts is not the army, when you grow up and/or your kids grow up, it’s over. You guys make it seem like BSA is some "Noble tradition". It is more like an organization that is past its prime. I am sure the values and skills that are supposed to be taught are well intentioned, but unfortunately, it seems there are some serious problems in your ranks. One quick search turns up a lot of stories of molestation and cover ups from within the organization. How exactly do you overlook that and just harp on the fact that I am suspicious of a group that had many documented cases of wrong doing.
I am basing what I believe on the facts at hand. The BSA has not only allowed molesters into the ranks, it helped to cover up the complaints. You go right on ahead and pretend that these types of incidents don’t occur. I personally have no desire to attach myself or my family to group like that.
But I am sure the creepy guy with no kids, tiny shorts, and colorful scarf and sash has no bad intentions toward the underage children he will be leading into the woods. The merit badges you earn from that trip may indeed last a lifetime. J

[coach lou]

Those of us that were lucky enough to be part of that Noble Tradition, are proud of it. I would love to rant and rave about this, I have deleted 3 responses already, but the things you have said so far show us that you truely donot know anything about the BSA, only what you want to read.

[Rasty]

null

Who has the can of troll-b-gone?

[Mountain Mike]

By your way of thinking then we should keep our children out of schools, sport, religious institutions, etc. since a search can come up with case of abuse & cover ups.
Scouts is intended to teach leadership. Yes it is mostly done thru the outdoors. If every scout on the trail tagged a shelter there wouldn't bee room for anyone else Yes there are some bad apples, just like everywhere else, that make them stick out. As for adults without kids in the troop. Many people stay with the program giving back what they learned. I know of many that stayed on after their children have grown out of it. It gives kids something constructive to do outside of school that can help prepare them in their lives. I thank all the adults that sacrifice their times to teach them.

[yaduck9]

Who has the can of troll-b-gone?

+1 on that sentiment............

[Wise Old Owl]

............................

[Tuckahoe]

It's no loss. Boy Scouts is not the army, when you grow up and/or your kids grow up, it’s over. You guys make it seem like BSA is some "Noble tradition". It is more like an organization that is past its prime. I am sure the values and skills that are supposed to be taught are well intentioned, but unfortunately, it seems there are some serious problems in your ranks. One quick search turns up a lot of stories of molestation and cover ups from within the organization. How exactly do you overlook that and just harp on the fact that I am suspicious of a group that had many documented cases of wrong doing.
I am basing what I believe on the facts at hand. The BSA has not only allowed molesters into the ranks, it helped to cover up the complaints. You go right on ahead and pretend that these types of incidents don’t occur. I personally have no desire to attach myself or my family to group like that.
But I am sure the creepy guy with no kids, tiny shorts, and colorful scarf and sash has no bad intentions toward the underage children he will be leading into the woods. The merit badges you earn from that trip may indeed last a lifetime. J

Aaannndddd there ya go. Let somene blather on long enough and the truth comes out. The child molestation is just a red herring, meant to mask what is really an unreasonable dislike for the BSA. Your true bias is easily revealed in the first couple sentances.

BSA has had to deal with the same issues as so many other groups and organizations... yup from public schools, to police departments, to churches. No better no worse.

[Therunner1Guy]

You’re right. What was I thinking? The scouts have such a proud history and are as American as apple pie. How could a few (Many) inflammatory news articles distract me from the valuable contribution that scouting makes to society. I apologize for disagreeing with you in any way and I will make every effort to conform to your values and ideals. Your acceptance of people for who they are (Unless you are gay) is truly remarkable. It is my great honor to be in the presence of such an organization (Homophobic child molesters) as this.
You guys need to calm down, no need to sharpen your little knives and come after me.

[Rasty]

You’re right. What was I thinking? The scouts have such a proud history and are as American as apple pie. How could a few (Many) inflammatory news articles distract me from the valuable contribution that scouting makes to society. I apologize for disagreeing with you in any way and I will make every effort to conform to your values and ideals. Your acceptance of people for who they are (Unless you are gay) is truly remarkable. It is my great honor to be in the presence of such an organization (Homophobic child molesters) as this.
You guys need to calm down, no need to sharpen your little knives and come after me.

Need the industrial size can on this troll!

[yaduck9]

Need the industrial size can on this troll!

yes, a very emotional young man. very suspicous....

[Wise Old Owl]

This is probably my favorite in this years journals. This one comes from ChinMusic's Trail Journals and was taken at Russell Field Shelter

Attachment 21353

Wm although you started this thread, seriously as one old adult to another.... I wish you had not.. appears bashing Boy Scouts occurs every 6 months... read on.

The AT is the peoples trail, if people that use it annoy you can go somewhere else.

I understand some people don't want to be around a group of loud obnoxious 12 and 13 year olds (all kids that age are loud and obnoxious), but no mater where they go, they will annoy someone.

I can tell you scouts in the VA/MD area spend more time in GWNF or other trails in SNP than on the AT.

I guess what we really need to do is just keep scouts and other youth groups off the trails and keep them in the city where they belong :screwy:

Adults need to grow up, there is lots of poor or absent parenting out there... good post

I guess what we really need to do is just keep scouts and other youth groups off the trails and keep them in the city where they belong :screwy:

The city scouts cannot afford to hit the trails...

The kids are probably teachable. I have doubts about their leaders.

Parenting and leaders cannot be there 100% of the time... Impulsive idiots get up at 3Am and do stupid things

No need to bash the scouts; like frats they often take care of it themselves.

Agreed!

Since it was my post of the pic that started this spin off let me clarify a few things.

None of my post was bashing Boy Scouts.

Most of those that did comment were gentle with the 'they shouldn't so this". It was the overreacting defenders with the attitude of BSA is apple pie and can do no wrong to drove the anger here. That's like telling someone complaining about their college football team's losing streak to go to another college if they don't like it, or join the team if you think you can do better.

The adults that led this group into the Smokies had to get permits, they had to be responsible for them. I did research into the Troop after seeing the pic. That was when I saw that the Scoutmaster and at least three of the boys have the same last name. (Before you make all the Deliverance comments, it is common in small southern towns that families don't move for generations and are related). I felt contacting the leadership would be pointless and that the same family members are probably members of the same church or what ever the sponsor is and so probably the Troop's IR. Also I did not take the photo or witness the damage first hand, I read it in Trail Journals. (To be clear, I have no doubt that ChinMusic did). I could be wrong about not contacting them and others familiar with Scouting have decided to contact the Council.

Those of you in Scouting that are embarrassed by this type of behavior get the idea, those of you that think Scouts can do no wrong..I hope you are not involved with teaching our youth.

Yes. Wannabe thru-hikers, wannabe preachers and wannabe Scoutmasters, do have to be held to higher standards. It comes with the job.


As for me? I probably have more life time hours involved in Scouting that most of the loudest defenders. And I will criticize them when they need it.

Attachment 21362

How do we as a group respond to this back peddling? Well you heart is in the right place, clearly the 1st post kind of upset me, but 12-17.9 year olds make poor decisions. Parents steer and use a compass to point in the right direction,,,, Kids well - good luck

Any one hear from the Scout Council?

ya kidding right?

By your way of thinking then we should keep our children out of schools, sport, religious institutions, etc. since a search can come up with case of abuse & cover ups.
Scouts is intended to teach leadership. Yes it is mostly done thru the outdoors. If every scout on the trail tagged a shelter there wouldn't bee room for anyone else Yes there are some bad apples, just like everywhere else, that make them stick out. As for adults without kids in the troop. Many people stay with the program giving back what they learned. I know of many that stayed on after their children have grown out of it. It gives kids something constructive to do outside of school that can help prepare them in their lives. I thank all the adults that sacrifice their times to teach them.

Major fist pump action there MM!Ya!


Folks there are bigger things to worry about! The single action about 1 kid with a Sharpie isn't the problem. Don't hold your breath. Graffitti is as old as 3000 year old. Some of us old people are far more annoying. We have been this over and over again... Stop bashing the Boy Scouts.. Bash the little League instead or poor or missing dads.. they don't care. I do! Clearly some here need to grow up. The pain of the inner city and nothing to do or sub par schooling is the real issue and it doesn't matter if its the woods or the city.

[HikerMom58]

Need the industrial size can on this troll!

Rasty...he's fairly new member. 28 posts. He feels strongly about this... He has fears/ concerns and/or a true dislike for the organization.

[Alligator]

The thread topic is scouts and graffiti. Please get back on topic.

Thread was split in part because any mention of scouts typically ends up where the conversation is currently at. However, it was also split because the approach to resolving the graffiti issue will differ when attempting to correct a scouting group vs. thruhikers.

[WingedMonkey]

Wm although you started this thread, seriously as one old adult to another.... I wish you had not.. appears bashing Boy Scouts occurs every 6 months... read on.


How do we as a group respond to this back peddling? Well you heart is in the right place, clearly the 1st post kind of upset me

First off I did not start this as a post, I posted the pic in another thread about thru-hikers tagging and moderators (wisely) pulled it out because they saw where it was going.

Second, I was not back-peddling, I was clarifying why I posted it in the first place.

Third, for some time I have been concerned that you are even involved with Scouts, personally I don't see you as a good influence.

You are welcome.

[Wise Old Owl]

First off I did not start this as a post, I posted the pic in another thread about thru-hikers tagging and moderators (wisely) pulled it out because they saw where it was going.

Second, I was not back-peddling, I was clarifying why I posted it in the first place.

Third, for some time I have been concerned that you are even involved with Scouts, personally I don't see you as a good influence.

You are welcome.

Well I appreciate that but I still wish you had-dent... as for influence, defending the scouts here is my right to free speech.