Scout Graffiti:Split from Thruhiker Vandalism
This is probably my favorite in this years journals. This one comes from ChinMusic's Trail Journals and was taken at Russell Field Shelter
tj14317_032413_191040_717112.jpg
The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
You never know which one is talking.
http://www.elkvalleytimes.com/?p=2984 Shows Alcorn as the Scoutmaster.Originally Posted by WingedMonkey
E-mail sent to the Middle Tennessee Council District Executive, asking about it. I'm embarrassed big time.
Last edited by Old Hiker; 04-28-2013 at 17:54.
Old Hiker
AT Hike 2012 - 497 Miles of 2184
AT Thru Hiker - 29 FEB - 03 OCT 2016 2189.1 miles
Just because my teeth are showing, does NOT mean I'm smiling.
Hányszor lennél inkább máshol?
Yeah, I researched that too back when the pic was first posted. Seems to be quite a long time and popular troop. And a lot of relatives.
Be interesting to see what the councils reaction is.
Or maybe a article in the Elk Valley Times?
The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
You never know which one is talking.
Would it be acceptable to set up a seperate forum, sort of a "wall of shame" or a "virtual stockade" , add pics and/or stories of acts of defaceing. Would it have the desired effect?
One of the problems with persistent graffiti is that once it hits a critical mass, some people stupidly see it as socially acceptable to add to it (I think the phenomenon is called Broken Window Theory in criminology). I highly doubt that a troop of scouts would have signed their name in a pristine shelter that was free of vandalism.
Another example was 2013 hiker "rifle" and his boneheaded decision to carve his name in a shelter that was already full of "tags.". He was solo hiking early in the year and saw so many names carved in the shelters along the way that he actually thought it was an innocent tradition and even went so far as to post a photo of it on trailjournals. To his credit he sincerely apologized when he realized how dumb his actions were.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
If you really want to cause them some grief, simply go into the comments section of that local paper and add a link to the original image of the vandalism along with a comment questioning the scouts judgement. Their local community will take it from there. No need fir the law, they are just kids and a bit of public pressure will likely create a teachable moment when their troop realizes the negative reaction that this graffiti has caused.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
Well considered and well said.
I think Rifle took a brand new shelters virginity.One of the problems with persistent graffiti is that once it hits a critical mass, some people stupidly see it as socially acceptable to add to it (I think the phenomenon is called Broken Window Theory in criminology). I highly doubt that a troop of scouts would have signed their name in a pristine shelter that was free of vandalism.
Another example was 2013 hiker "rifle" and his boneheaded decision to carve his name in a shelter that was already full of "tags.". He was solo hiking early in the year and saw so many names carved in the shelters along the way that he actually thought it was an innocent tradition and even went so far as to post a photo of it on trailjournals. To his credit he sincerely apologized when he realized how dumb his actions were.
The kids are probably teachable. I have doubts about their leaders.
"It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss
Great idea but the article is over a year old. And while I may have missed it, I didn't see a Comments section.
I emailed their local BSA council as well. My troop backpacked sections of the AT as well so this is particularly bothersome to me.
If anyone has issues with a Scout troop, find out who the chartering organization is a let them know. 99 times out of 100 that will take care of it very quickly.
Boy Scout troops are like a fast food franchise. Someone out there owns the troop, and that is the chartering organization. Usually a church or the local VFW, etc., but someone owns them.
The scoutmaster runs the day to day stuff, but he has to answer to the chartering organization.
Troops that do this kind of thing are in the vast minority, and you can trust me on this, it gets the rest of the troops more than a little miffed.
100s and 100s of troops hike on the AT, and most do their best to leave it better than they found it. Scout troops are like thru hikers, it only takes a few with bad manners to ruin it for the rest.
As a former Scout Master +1 to bfayer.
It is terrible when the multitude of Leave No Trace practicing Boy Scouts Troops get blamed for the actions few that do not follow LNT.
The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
Richard Ewell, CSA General
Wonder how many of the offending troop had their LNT merit badge?
When I was a Boy Scout we were taught better than that. What is the BSA coming too now?
I can guarantee there were Boy Scouts that did things like this and worse when you were a scout. Boy Scouts Troops are not a monolithic group anymore than any other group of people that consists of millions of members. The values of scouting have not changed.
When things like this happen, you find the people that did it, if you can, and let them know why what they did was wrong. The difference between between the average hiker that does something like this and a Boy Scout, is the Boy Scout will usually listen and learn.
Another thing to remember is BSA is not a program that hand selects it's boy members based on some test or evaluation. In fact it is set up to give boys that need a little more guidance and mentoring. In other words it's not a program targeted at just the good kids. All the adults are volunteers and are not hand selected based on their outdoor skills. They are adults that are trying to do their best with the skills and knowledge they have.
No need to bash the scouts; like frats they often take care of it themselves.
We love to hold certain people and organizations to a high level. That's not always a bad thing, I suppose :/ A reality check, with the BSA, was needed, here. Bfayer spoke of this in his last paragraph... he did a great job!!
I love being a part of the human race when I think about just how similar we are... Our choices, abilities etc...help to define us, as individuals. Can be very cool! Our worth ---it's all the same!
Which in turn generated this rant/post that I left in the Bald Mtn Shelter forum; which by the way briefly touches upon two of my other pet peaves:
As a former scout w/ a long standing and ever growing history of scouts, thanks for teaching them proper LNT practices!
I really hate seeing cig. butts and aluminum foil in and around the shelter as well. If you burn something and it is not ash when you are to leave, pack it out.
Now time for my thread jack , sorry:
I think folks also have a huge misunderstanding in terms of vandalism at the shelters as well; for instance, Scout Troop such such and such was here on blank date, is considered IMO vandalism. It's awesome that your troop did maintenance there and want the world to know your support of the AT; however, the shelter wall is not the place for that. Shelters have logs and are great tools and if none are present, leave a note at the next shelter or have a plaque made with your troop number on it. This is to be said for all the thru-hikers who feel they need to mark up the shelters as well; your flip flop, yo-yo or millionth time you've thru-hiked is really... not that important to the world and really... doesn't deserve a spot on the shelter wall, floor, picinc table etc; however, it is deserving to be in the shelter logs and would be received much better by many more that see it in the logs rather than on the walls!
Just saying folks!
While I was on my thru-hike I sooooo wanted to run into one of these STU's on the trail so that education can be provided then retraining to follow; if needed of course. It was awesome when Green Thumb and I came upon Rifle in the Smoky Mtns. Although he had already gotten beat up about it from the forums I still thought it was important to educate young Rifle. Turns out, he really was misguided and indeed learned from his mistake and vowed to carry the message to others about his mistake and why it is a huge no-no!
^That quote was supposed to show WingedMonkey's post and photo; sorry!^
Scouts are annoying on the AT. I'm sorry, I've tried to avoid that conclusion but there's no ignoring it anymore for me... Part of LNT is traveling in smaller groups to limit impact, but they seem to skip that message. If I'm at a shelter area (not in the shelter, just staying nearby) and a scout troop walks up I pack up and leave. I used to be a scout, and I'm glad to see them getting out, but personally I think there are better suited areas for scouts than the AT. There are even a handful of State and National Park sites they could stay at on the AT that would accomodate their numbers better.
Sorry, just my opinion. I don't have a grudge against scouts normally, but I kind of do on the AT.
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