Human behavior

[Chaco Taco]

We are currently socializing our dog and having him adapt to life around other people and other dogs. We have found the socialization Grayson gets from other dogs has been great. Until last week, we have not really had any issues with Grayson on the trail. He sometimes gets nervous around very tall men, but that was about it. Now with that said, this is not going to be a long rant about human and dog behavior but I feel like it needs to be said. When you walk up to a dog, no matter where you are there are certain respectful ground rules that human's really need to follow.
1. Dont assume its ok to pet someones dog.
2. Walking up to a dog with your hand out in front of you is not the way to greet any dog.
3. Just walking up to someone's dog and grabbing their face and dousing the dog with affection does more harm than good.

Something we have learned from obedience training is that dogs are more like humans than we give them credit for. Its ok to tell someone the right way to greet a dog. If they have a problem with it, thats their own problem.
When you greet a dog on the trail, first you should really ask the owner if 1- the dog is friendly and 2- if it is ok to approach the dog. If you and I met on the trail and you walked up to me and grabbed my face, Id probably deck you. So put yourself in the dogs shoes. This natural inclination of holding a hand out to a dog is dangerous. First of all, you should always have your side to the dog when greeting for the first time. Its less aggressive.
We have had multiple issues with a few hikers that have come up the trail and gone right for our dog and frightened him. Now he growls a liitle bit at people and it all started on The Presi's last week when someone just walked up to Grayson and just started to pet him aggresively without the proper introduction. With that said, I know some folks do not like having dogs on the trail, and if you are one those people, simply move along from this thread. Please start trying to understand interactions with dogs on the trail. Humans really should be more considerate of dog owners and dogs on the trail. PLease do you part as humans

[Yukon]

I always ask the owner before I pet their dog. I love dogs, and love seeing them on the the trail. Sounds like you are going about the training the right way Chaco...kudos.

[Chaco Taco]

I always ask the owner before I pet their dog. I love dogs, and love seeing them on the the trail. Sounds like you are going about the training the right way Chaco...kudos.

Thanks, we work with Grayson constantly and he is really great dog. We are in obedience class every Saturday. This is a small speed bump that Im sure will get better once he gets older. I have started to have to be a bit of an a**hole when folks just walk up and grab my dog. It aint cool and then my dog looks bad when he growls because of the actions of a few misinformed folks.

[FarmerChef]

Sounds like you're on the right track, Chaco. People need to interact with dogs like dogs interact with dogs not like people interact with people or stuffed animals (I'm paraphrasing Cesar Milan). Our Husky, Sara, used to feel very threatened when any other dog approached on the trail and liked to take the proactive approach to preventing an altercation by starting one. But we were able to quickly train her to redirect which stopped that behavior and more recently to meet and greet other dogs naturally. What a relief! It can be done!

You are right on about asking to pet first and approaching properly. We have been teaching our children this and I'm always very proud when I see them go up and find the dogs owner to ask permission even when the dog is off leash or the owner is not around. Not only does this increase confidence with the dog, it teaches the kids to be in control of the situation and not unnecessarily afraid of encounters with strange dogs (certain situations excepted).

[ATMountainTime]

Chaco, I have a 95 lb yellow lab rescue. He's ok around most people, but if you are dark skinned he will simply lose his mind and go for blood. He had been chained to a tree and left for dead. We found him at 35 lbs. And he's simply the most loyal loving protective dog we've ever had. I keep him on lead at all times on the AT, and most all times on other trails. We've only had a couple issues, and it was mostly other peoples dogs not on a leash. Or people coming up to him that are darker skinned. I ask them repeatedly to leash their dog, or that he's really not very friendly...and they don't pay attention until he snaps and they get PO'd at me and my dog. Its a simple thing really...ask the owners first. That being said, id take a rescue any day, even with the temper issues.

[Dogwood]

I like this topic because once humans are conscientious of their behavior when it comes to domesticated animals it's just another step forward to being responsible for and conscientious of our human behavior when it come to interactions with wild animals. Good pts Chaco Taco. Can you further explain #3?

This is golden: "Something we have learned from obedience training is that dogs are more like humans than we give them credit for." Likewise, wild animals although different in many ways than the human animal are also alike in many ways. When we get informed and start adjusting our own human behavior accordingly by placing ourselves in the place of others, including non humans, much of the fear and lack of respect for all life falls away.

[Dogwood]

I love dogs on the trail when their handlers are responsible and conscientious.

[Train Wreck]

I always ask the owner before I pet their dog. I love dogs, and love seeing them on the the trail. Sounds like you are going about the training the right way Chaco...kudos.

I do the same and ask if it's ok to pet the dog, it's really just a matter of common sense. It's much better to wait for some kind of signal of acceptance on the dog's part even after the owner says ok.

[Dogwood]

People need to interact with dogs like dogs interact with dogs...

That only goes so far with me. I might twitch my ears or stick out my tongue or wag my tail but I ain't sniffing any dogs arse or private parts!

[Chaco Taco]

#3, countless times, and its typically young females will see Grayson and just walk up and grab and rub his face and the "oh he is such a cute boy". I told a young girl yesterday that she really should stop what she is doing because its disrespectful to me and my dog. Complete disregard of any respect but she is a misinformed human. I simply told her that she should never greet a dog in that manner. 9 times out of 10, Grayson will be fine and will have his tale wagging and will try to lick your face, but its that 1 time that I try to avoid. We simply, pull him off the trail and let folks pass by. If someone leashes their dog, we leash Grasyon, if their dog is unleashed, we unleash Grayson. Its unfair to Grayson for him to be on a leash when another dog is not leashed.
Just for the record, the approach Cesar takes with dogs is something we will never do with our dog. Our dog trainer is a certified behaviorist and advanced trainer. We do no sort of submissive tactics with Grayson. We let him be himself and will work on consistent training, meaning 15-20 minutes everyday, even on trail. Some of his behaviors on the trail are immaturity on his part, but some are bad human conditioning.

[Water Rat]

I have had the same issues while getting my 2 black lab-golden retrievers socialized on the trail. They are going to be 2 this summer and have always loved to get out on the trail. The biggest issue we have had is with the people who tend to just walk up and stick their hands in my dogs' faces, or will just automatically pet the pups. The difference is that my dogs LOVE all people and dogs and tend to want to greet everyone... That has its own issues. Not everyone wants to be greeted by a dog (much less, 2 dogs) and I certainly do not want my dogs just getting into the faces of strange dogs. That is just a recipe for disaster.

When the pups were a couple months old, I started to teach them to walk (on leash) to the side of the trail and sit down. First, I wanted to teach them to control themselves when strangers (dogs and people) approach on the trail and I also wanted to create a slight distance from other hikers & pooches. This allows me to decrease the number of times people just approach (without asking) my dogs, it allows those who do not want to be around dogs on the trail, to just walk on by, and it gives me a little time to assess the other dogs approaching on the trail.

People walking right up to my dogs and not introducing themselves, actually caused my dogs to back-slide a bit on their training. My pups STARTED running up to people (rather than sitting) to greet them. It got to the point where made the decision to put "working dog" signs on their packs. This has helped me to slow people down and introduce themselves (if they want) to my dogs in the fashion that will work best for my dogs to keep moving forward with their training.

[Chaco Taco]

I do the same and ask if it's ok to pet the dog, it's really just a matter of common sense. It's much better to wait for some kind of signal of acceptance on the dog's part even after the owner says ok.

taking that a step further, when meeting a dog for the first time, its best to have a nonthreatening stance as well. Making sure you are not directly facing the dog and even knealing down to the dogs level will get your further. The side approach has been great for Grayson and is a proper way to meet a new dog

[Chaco Taco]

I have had the same issues while getting my 2 black lab-golden retrievers socialized on the trail. They are going to be 2 this summer and have always loved to get out on the trail. The biggest issue we have had is with the people who tend to just walk up and stick their hands in my dogs' faces, or will just automatically pet the pups. The difference is that my dogs LOVE all people and dogs and tend to want to greet everyone... That has its own issues. Not everyone wants to be greeted by a dog (much less, 2 dogs) and I certainly do not want my dogs just getting into the faces of strange dogs. That is just a recipe for disaster.

When the pups were a couple months old, I started to teach them to walk (on leash) to the side of the trail and sit down. First, I wanted to teach them to control themselves when strangers (dogs and people) approach on the trail and I also wanted to create a slight distance from other hikers & pooches. This allows me to decrease the number of times people just approach (without asking) my dogs, it allows those who do not want to be around dogs on the trail, to just walk on by, and it gives me a little time to assess the other dogs approaching on the trail.

People walking right up to my dogs and not introducing themselves, actually caused my dogs to back-slide a bit on their training. My pups STARTED running up to people (rather than sitting) to greet them. It got to the point where made the decision to put "working dog" signs on their packs. This has helped me to slow people down and introduce themselves (if they want) to my dogs in the fashion that will work best for my dogs to keep moving forward with their training.

Yea and as a dog owner, dont be shy and tell people to not do what they are doing. You feel like an a**hole at first, but who cares what they say. Id rather have a well adjusted dog than worry about someone getting upset about me aksing them to not touch my dog.

[Dogwood]

I'm no dog expert Chaco Taco but sounds like Grayson is a lucky dog to have you as his friend.

[wakapak]

#3, countless times, and its typically young females will see Grayson and just walk up and grab and rub his face and the "oh he is such a cute boy". I told a young girl yesterday that she really should stop what she is doing because its disrespectful to me and my dog. Complete disregard of any respect but she is a misinformed human. I simply told her that she should never greet a dog in that manner. 9 times out of 10, Grayson will be fine and will have his tale wagging and will try to lick your face, but its that 1 time that I try to avoid. We simply, pull him off the trail and let folks pass by. If someone leashes their dog, we leash Grasyon, if their dog is unleashed, we unleash Grayson. Its unfair to Grayson for him to be on a leash when another dog is not leashed.
Just for the record, the approach Cesar takes with dogs is something we will never do with our dog. Our dog trainer is a certified behaviorist and advanced trainer. We do no sort of submissive tactics with Grayson. We let him be himself and will work on consistent training, meaning 15-20 minutes everyday, even on trail. Some of his behaviors on the trail are immaturity on his part, but some are bad human conditioning.

A big thing both Chaco and I have learned from Grayson's trainer is that you never ever put your face in a dog's face, especially a dog you don't know and that doesn't know you. It sounds like common sense but people's excitement over seeing a cute puppy takes over more often than common sense. Like Chaco said, so many people have gone to pet Grayson by putting their hands on both sides of his head, rubbing his head/ears and leaning down into him giving affection....it's all harmless on their part but reality is that it's actually threatening and intimidating to a dog--there's this person they dont know grabbing their head and putting their face into their face. The proper way to approach a dog you don't know is to first ask permission of the owner, and if the owner gives permission then you bend down, turned sideways towards the dog-not face on, and wait and see if the dog approaches you. Let the dog sniff you a bit then pet it but not on the head or face-pet it on it's back or side.

Also, if you see people pulled off to the side of trail with their dog sitting there to let you by, just go on by. It's not an invitation to come over and pet the dog, etc. If you saw two humans pull off the side of the trail so you can pass, I'm sure you would just pass them by maybe saying hi as you went by. It's the same damn thing with people who have a dog. They are pulling off the trail to let you go by, so you should do just that...walk on by, you can be friendly and say hi as your passing but do not stick your hand out going for the dog's head to pet it. If you're so inclined and desperately need to pet the dog, ask permission and approach the right way.

[Chaco Taco]

There was a woman on a local trail here that yelled at her dog for sniffing Grayson's butt, I ***** you not. I asked her why she does that and she said it was because she thinks its gross. I told her that dogs have glands in the anus that are used as an identifier for dogs. This is where I also point out the need for dog owners to also be knowledgable of dog interactions.

[Chaco Taco]

Also, if you see people pulled off to the side of trail with their dog sitting there to let you by, just go on by. It's not an invitation to come over and pet the dog, etc. If you saw two humans pull off the side of the trail so you can pass, I'm sure you would just pass them by maybe saying hi as you went by. It's the same damn thing with people who have a dog. They are pulling off the trail to let you go by, so you should do just that...walk on by, you can be friendly and say hi as your passing but do not stick your hand out going for the dog's head to pet it. If you're so inclined and desperately need to pet the dog, ask permission and approach the right way.

just highlighting this important point

[Chaco Taco]

I'm no dog expert Chaco Taco but sounds like Grayson is a lucky dog to have you as his friend.

Wakapak is a huge part of it as well

[Dogwood]

Posters here are obvious conscientious and knowledgeable dog owners. I would have little or no problem personally with you folks and your dogs on a trail.

[Dogwood]

What is wakapak?