Fire rings

[Game Warden]

As someone who works on the trail, I implore you: don't build fire rings. They are an eyesore that last for decades; they morph into garbage dumps. One nice campsite might sprout a fire ring, but many others will pop up nearby. Many hikers don't even build fires anymore; I don't except in the winter. A fire ring only blocks horizontal heat radiation.If you feel you must build a fire ring, break it down when you leave

[sir limpsalot]

I like them 'cause they give you a sign that there is a good campsite.

[shelterbuilder]

Yikes, there's something "a bit off" if you need to see a fire ring to tell if a place is a good campsite.

[illabelle]

Yikes, there's something "a bit off" if you need to see a fire ring to tell if a place is a good campsite.

I think I understand what limpsalot might be getting at. Many areas might have a good campsite, but you don't know until you investigate. But if you see a fire ring, it confirms that there's at least a usable campsite nearby, and maybe even water. You can go ahead and throw your pack off and start looking around.

There's something about the things that are made by the human hand that can be welcoming or comforting when you're in a natural environment, far away from your normal address. After miles of woods and hills, a shelter says "Home." A bench (or even a sawed log says "Chair" a little differently than an entirely untouched log or a rock. A fire ring says "Hearth." Even the path itself, marked with manmade white blazes and carved into the soil by thousands of human feet, says "Companionship." Every time we see the things we made, we know we're not lost or alone in the world.

Of course sometimes we want to get lost, to be away from other people. That's why some of us go to the woods in the first place. Seeing a fire ring, or a pile of trash, or a sign every 50 yards would kill the experience. Likewise, arriving at a great campsite only to discover that it has morphed into a trash dump is a sad way to end the day.

[Bronk]

Every other species is free to leave their mark upon the earth. I don't see why humans should be any different.

You don't like fire rings. The people that build them obviously do. Why should your dislike for them trump those who do like them?

Government bureaucrats are kind of the same way...once one sprouts up pretty soon there are many others nearby.

[Theosus]

I was taught that if there is already one fire ring, use that one. The heat from the fire "sterilizes" the ground underneath and prevents stuff from growing for a long time (as opposed to a forest fire that sort of sweeps across the surface rather quickly). So - a ring of stones tells people "this is where the fire should go", reducing impacts over a broad area, and limiting heat damage to one spot.
To me - the effort of building and maintaining a fire, then extinguishing it and making it safe is too much to go through when I'm solo. I cook over my Fancy Feast stove... thats all the fire I really need, although a nice fire in the winter is nice for a group.

[treesloth]

Every other species is free to leave their mark upon the earth. I don't see why humans should be any different.

Hmm. Would you have that same attitude if you went away on vacation, and then came back to find that someone had camped out on your property and left a fire ring on it? You'd likely be pretty pissed off, I know I would. This thread is really more about LNT than anything else. Kinda sad that you don't seem to jive with it.

[Pedaling Fool]

Not a good analogy. Fire rings do not cause environmental damage of any significance, hint, you gotta look at the big picture. This is just some meme that people keep repeating. Can someone quantify how many fire rings are out there?

[Old Hiker]

Not a good analogy. Fire rings do not cause environmental damage of any significance, hint, you gotta look at the big picture. This is just some meme that people keep repeating. Can someone quantify how many fire rings are out there?

Somewhat agree, but once a fire ring or two is started, then more and more people stop to take advantage of them and start to build more. Trees get pruned back severely for fire wood, trash builds up, vegetation is trampled and killed, bare spots start, erosion, etc. Broken window effect.

I'd look for an existing ring and use it sparingly, if I wanted a fire. Too many of the fires I saw were too big, too wasteful and really not needed. One of the best Scout campfires I was ever at was at Brownsea Island, UK, where the Ranger just put 2 Coleman lanterns on a cairn of rocks for us.

[treesloth]

You kinda lost me when you said:

Not a good analogy. Fire rings do not cause environmental damage of any significance, hint, you gotta look at the big picture.

Looking at it that way, neither does a big steaming pile of someone's improperly-disposed of morning glory. But we know no one wants to see THAT. You've paid your dues out there PF, no disrespect.. but "LNT wherever applicable" is a meme we can all benefit from.

[Dr. Professor]

In general, I'm in the camp of:

1) Feel free to use one that's already there.

2) If there's none there and you want one -- (a) build one, but (b) break it down later, and (c) leave no trace. I don't buy the argument that nothing will ever grow there again. Nature will return.

If everyone built and left one every time they camped, the trails would be an endless string of fire rings.

[Pedaling Fool]

First off, can we all agree that piles of sh1t are just disgusting and no one wants to see them? Why some people find it funny Sh**ting in the middle of the trail, I don’t know?

That aside, what I’m talking about is the environment in the big picture, it’s irrelevant. When a gopher digs holes and tunnels they are removing soil that allowed living things to live and grow. Far more soil is being displaced by gophers and other ground-dwelling animals than all of the fire rings along the AT. I also don't see the trampling effect as a big deal. Human's footprint issues has nothing to do with camping. Agriculture is our big impact and any camping issues doesn't even compare in the slightest.


WRT the eye-sore issue, that’s a subjective thing. Personally I don’t find them to be an eye sore, but I’m not arguing that point, because it’s so subjective. If you find it an eye sore, well sorry, but it’s not a significant environmental issue, that’s all I’m saying. I do find weedy/shrubbery areas an eye sore, no kidding. But I suspect no one really cares about my eye-sore issues.

[treesloth]

WRT the eye-sore issue, that’s a subjective thing. Personally I don’t find them to be an eye sore, but I’m not arguing that point, because it’s so subjective. If you find it an eye sore, well sorry, but it’s not a significant environmental issue, that’s all I’m saying. I do find weedy/shrubbery areas an eye sore, no kidding. But I suspect no one really cares about my eye-sore issues.

Not trying to split hairs here, but I personally don't find any tenent of LNT to really be subjective. I'm talking about the land that has not yet been exploited, and hopefully never will be (i.e. the whole AT corridor). We can agree to disagree on this one though.

[Don H]

You ever noticed those round flat areas along the trail, about 25' in diameter that have been dug into the side of a hill with black soil? They make great campsites because they're flat. Those sites are called Collier Pits and were used to make charcoal for the iron furnaces in the late 1800's. It would take one acre of hardwood, turned into charcoal per day to run an iron furnace. They are all along the AT and are easily recognized once you know what to look for.

The AT corridor has been exploited by humans long before there was an AT.

[Slo-go'en]

The purpose of a stone fire ring is to contain the fire. If you feel a need to build a fire, please do it safely inside a fire ring.

Along the AT, there are more then enough existing fire rings that there really shouldn't be any need to make new ones.

[Game Warden]

I'm the guy who actually has to come along and break down multiple fire rings at popular campsites. I'm the guy who puts on the work gloves and deconstructs about a dozen fire rings around every shelter, throwing the stones back into the woods. I implore you: please don't build fire rings.

[Game Warden]

And more, Bronk, I'm the government bureaucrat who planted all those white pine trees around the shelter, the one who investigates shelter vandalism, squatters, crazy people living in the woods along the trail, gives rides to injured hikers, does search and rescue for lost hikers, etc. Just do me a favor and break down the fire ring. That's all I ask.

[shelterbuilder]

And more, Bronk, I'm the government bureaucrat who planted all those white pine trees around the shelter, the one who investigates shelter vandalism, squatters, crazy people living in the woods along the trail, gives rides to injured hikers, does search and rescue for lost hikers, etc. Just do me a favor and break down the fire ring. That's all I ask.

And that's NOT too much to ask! There are some sections of the footpath where I have seen (and dismantled) fire rings every 200-300 feet, and it makes me wonder sometimes if we are going forward or backward with LNT. NPS is going crazy trying to stop the newest craze: thru-hiker graffiti in shelters. I'm going nuts trying to figure out why ANYONE would use a hatchet to carve firewood off of the structure of a shelter (doing unrepairable structural damage in the process). GW, a suggestion: throw the stones from the fire rings farther down the slope, so that it's too tough to drag them back up! (You KNOW that they won't stop building them until all of the rocks are gone....)

[bfayer]

...Fire rings do not cause environmental damage of any significance, hint, you gotta look at the big picture...

Neither does graffiti or pooping in the middle of a campsite, they all amount to the same thing to me.

Most people go into the woods to get away from the creations of man, others should have some respect for that and build their fire rings in their own backyard.

I was out in GW National Forrest a couple of weeks ago and someone built a fire ring right in the middle of a side trail (and I mean right in the middle of the trail) about a 100 feet from a campsite that already had a fire ring, ***?

[Bronk]

My point is which one is the jerk, the one who builds the fire ring or the one who dismantles it? You could easily argue that the one dismantling it is destroying the work of the person who built it. What's really funny to me is the same people who build and maintain shelters and decry the graffiti and damage endorse someone else destroying fire rings. What if I suggested that people dismantle shelters when they see them? They argue leave no trace but then say to throw all the rocks down the hill so there aren't any rocks left at the site to build fire rings. Its all very funny to me. If I went away on vacation and someone built a fire ring in my yard that would be trespassing on private property...we are talking about public property here that belongs to everyone. Fire rings do not cause permanent or even long term damage...the soil returns to normal within 3 years, usually less. Most of the people that get involved in discussions on these kinds of topics are more than just a little hypocritical.