Please Explain

[magneto]

I hike mostly in the Whites in New Hampshire. Very few places to pitch a tent outside official campsites and there mostly on wooden platforms - very uncomfortable wooden platforms. The weight of the hammock with the rain fly, line, webbing straps, etc. is comparable to ultralight tent systems. The hammock offers the ability to sleep away form campsites on ridges without regard to unlevel ground, even when the ground is pitching away at 20 or 30 degrees.

Condensation from respiration / dew is no different than in a tent. Given the right combination of temperature and moisture, you will get dripped on, but not soaked. My Hennessy hammock has kept me dry in the rain - no issues.

As for the sleeping pad, I don't carry one. I have a light-weight down sleeping bag (Western Mountaineering Summerlite) that I use with two other Western Mountaineering products: their down flash pants and flash jacket. This combination is more than warm enough and I need to carry the pants and jacket anyway, even in the summer, as we can have winter conditions here any time of the year.

[Nutbrown]

The eno accessories are quite heavy compared to others. My DIY silnylon tarp is about 10oz. Their underquilt seems a bit thin, and it's heavier than I would take. A regular pad works fine. My entire sleep system weighs 2 lbs. ...but even if it weighs the same as a tent, I'd still hammock. My back never hurts, and I sleep better on the trail than I do at home.

[The Old Boot]

The big store stuff you were looking at is just that! - big store stuff. Just like the cottage industry vendors doing tents, the hammock cottage industry has devised much better equipment with much lighter weights. For me, going to hammocking has allowed me to get back out into the woods again. I quit 30 odd years ago when arthritis and sleeping on the ground ruined my enjoyment of it all. Take a wander over to hammockforums.com and browse through the information there - we're a wonderfully friendly bunch and yes, some are more fervent than others but it's because we're enthusiastic about how comfortable we are!

[DeerPath]

Out of curiosity....why were you hammock camping in a tropical storm?

I had just received my hammock the day before and hung it in the backyard to try it out. I think the best sleep I've ever had camping.

[CB1821]

If you are comparing a standard backpacking tent and hammock set up, the weights are comparable from what I found (see below from our Backpacking Excel Spreadsheet). In the end, it is still all personal preferences and the expected conditions of any particular trip that should guide your choice, but I am not sure dismissing hammocks for weight reasons is a logical means of making a decision.
My son and I finished Springer to 64/Franklin in a week-long trip this spring “hanging” for the first time, and although we may still find times when we will want to tent (or use a tarp), we definitely consider ourselves diehard fans of (Blackbird 1.1) hammocks.

Shelter/Sleeping
Tent
MH Lamina +35 Sleeping Bag	39
2/3 ThermaRest RidgeRest Sleeping Pad	10
SOL Emergency Blanket	2.5
Pillow	5.6
Big Agnes Fly Creek UL- 1 person (w/o foot print)	30	Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2 is only 4 oz more
Tent Subtotal	87.1	5.44
Hammock	26	Warbonnet Blackbird 1.1 Dl
Top Quilt* (40 Degree) & stuff sack	17.2	Shenandoah JRB 40d w/ compression sack 1.2 oz
Under Quilt* (20 Degree) & stuff sack	12.5	Yeti 3 season 20d 12.5 oz (or use ThremaRest @10 oz)
Pillow*	5.6	* 2.36 lbs for sleep system (not counting hammock)
SOL Emergency Blanket*	2.5	lowers top quilt rating to below 30 degrees
Edge Tarp, Para Cord, & Stuff Sack	11.25	Warbonnet Edge Tarp 10 oz, 100' para cord 8 oz
Edge door kit	3.2	4 doors/7.2 oz total - using 2 each 3.2 oz
Stakes	2.1	Warbonnet Stakes x 6
Hammock Subtotal	80.35	5.02

[Just Bill]

Solo systems-
COWBOY- SOL Escape Bivy ($50, 8.1 oz.) No stakes or lines, no poles. Headnet added (Sea to Summit basic, $10, 1.3oz).
COWBOY PLUS-Z-Packs Pertex Quantum Bivy ($175, 6 oz.) Add 6 ti stakes($20, 1.75oz.) and 25' of triptease($10, .5 oz.) Mini tarp- homemade- 4' x 6', about $30, 4oz. Headnet added (same)
SIMPLE TARP-Mountain Laurel Designs Super Tarp, 8'x10' ($205, 16 oz.) Add poles, MLD front and rear pole set($50, 2.75 oz). ( Includes guyline, add MLD ultimate stake kit ($38, 4.7 oz- field weight for normal use 3.5 oz), add basic headnet.
TARP TENT-Z-Packs Hexamid Solo Tent w/screen ($295 9.3 oz.) 48" Hexamid Solo pole ($22, 1.5 oz.) Add 8 ti stakes($24, 2.25oz.) and 25' of triptease($10, .5 oz.) Solo Cuben Groundsheet ($95, 2.7 oz.)
BIVY SHELTER- The North Face Asylum Bivy ($230, 26 oz.) add 6 TI stakes ($20, 1.75oz.)
SOLO TENT CHEAP-REI Passage 1 Tent ($120, 60 oz) use included stakes and guylines, no groundsheet.
SOLO TENT-Mountain Hardware Supermega UL 1 ($350, 30oz.) use included stakes and guylines, no groundsheet.
Two man systems-
SIMPLE TARP-2-Mountain Laurel Designs Super Tarp, 10.5'x10.5' ($205, 20 oz.) Add poles, MLD front and rear pole set($50, 2.75 oz). ( Includes guyline, add MLD ultimate stake kit ($38, 4.7 oz- field weight for normal use 3.5 oz), add basic headnet (x2).
TARP TENT-2-Z-Packs Hexamid twin Tent w/screen ($350 11.2 oz.) 48" and 32" Hexamid Twin poles ($37, 2.4 oz.) Add 8 ti stakes($24, 2.25oz.) and 25' of triptease($10, .5 oz.) Twin Cuben Groundsheet ($120, 4.3 oz.)
TWO MAN TENT 1-REI Camp Dome 2 tent, ($100, 80 oz.) use included stakes and guylines, no groundsheet.
TWO MAN TENT 2-The North Face Mica FL 2 ($380, 50oz.) use included stakes and guylines, no groundsheet
TWO MAN TENT 3-Mountain Hardware Supermega UL 2 ($450, 36oz.) use included stakes and guylines, no groundsheet.

SHELTER TYPE-	CORE-	STAKE & LINE KIT	POLES-	EXTRAS-	TOTAL WEIGHT	PER PERSON WEIGHT	TOTAL COST	PER PERSON COST
COWBOY-	8.1			1.3	9.4	9.4	$ 60.00	$ 60.00
COWBOY PLUS-	5.5	2.25		5.3	13.05	13.05	$ 245.00	$ 245.00
SIMPLE TARP-	16	3.5	2.75	1.3	23.55	23.55	$ 303.00	$ 303.00
TARP TENT-	9.3	2.75	1.5	2.7	16.25	16.25	$ 446.00	$ 446.00
BIVY SHELTER-	26	1.75			27.75	27.75	$ 250.00	$ 250.00
SOLO TENT CHEAP-	60				60	60	$ 120.00	$ 120.00
SOLO TENT-	30				30	30	$ 350.00	$ 350.00
SIMPLE TARP-2	20	3.5	2.75	2.6	28.85	14.425	$ 313.00	$ 156.50
TARP TENT-2	11.2	2.75	2.4	4.3	20.65	10.325	$ 541.00	$ 270.50
TWO MAN TENT 1-	80				80	40	$ 100.00	$ 50.00
TWO MAN TENT 2-	50				50	25	$ 380.00	$ 190.00
TWO MAN TENT 3-	36				36	18	$ 450.00	$ 225.00

[Hoop]

Teacher and Snacktime, The big box stores' stock is heavy, as you found out. There are many cottage vendors who make high quality gear - hammocks, tarps, underquilts, topquilts and various accessories. Those drawn to things hammocky inevitably migrate to hammockforums.net, a very informative user-friendly site (an offshoot of WB) where members go out of their way to help new hangers and folks interested in learning. You can equip yourself with a kit that is no heavier than a tent system (been there done that), but is so much more comfortable. Hammocks are not for everyone, but my experience has been that the vast majority of people who go that route - after a bit of a learning curve at first to get dialed in - don't return to the ground. You might want to attend a "hang" to see some set-ups and meet some people whose hips and other joints feel just fine in the morning...

[gunner76]

I could not get used to my knees being locked

What are you talking about ? I have never experienced that in any of my hammocks, DIY or commercial made and I am 6ft2 and 280lbs. I sleep on my back and both sides.

Highly recommend that you attend a group hang where you can see many different setups and learn a lot in short time.

Weight wise you usually will not save any weight, works out about the same but a hammock can be much more comfortable.

ENOs, Grand Trunks ect are Ok but can be on the heavy side.


From I spread sheet I did for a AT hike I took.....

SHELTER
BB 1.1 double		29		w/Dutch Clips
T' Thingies		2.2
Cuben tarp		11.6		w/ridgeline & tieouts
Hammock Sock		9.8
Stakes		3.9
TQ w/stuff sack		24		Down 30 deg
UQ w/stuff sack		20		Down 20 deg
			100.5 ounces	6.28125 lbs

Total 6.3 lbs good down to 20 degrees. I could have left the hammock sock at home and saved few ounces

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Well, I certainly have enough info here to keep me busy for a while....thank you all. I can see that each and every one of you is passionate about your "hanging"!

[rhjanes]

I was canoeing on the Buffalo National River this past May, when that bad storm with the tornado's which hit Moore Oklahoma then moved over us. I was in my Warbonnet Black Bird hammock, hanging under a Warbonnet Superfly. With an underquilt and a top quilt. Those storms pounded us from 9:15 PM until 6 AM the next day. I was completely dry. Warm. Comfortable. The only item I had to dry out or pack wet, was the tarp (superfly). My tent buddy had slept on his thin pad on the slightly unlevel ground. He had to dry out his rain fly, the bath tub (underside) of his tent and his ground sheet. He and I actually had about the same amount of material to dry. My set up weighs the same as a tent with pad and sleeping bag. My hang every night is exactly the same, No worry about roots, rocks, sticks, unlevel ground.
I'd suggest you get on Amazon and buy "The Ultimate Hang" for like $14. It tells and shows with nice funny drawings, all things hammock related and all the options. Also, get over to HammockForums.NET

[Teacher & Snacktime]

OK...I've registered over at HammockForums.NET.....It's going to take me a while to sift through all this info. Thanks again, Everyone!

[rhjanes]

BTW, Hammock camping isn't for everyone. Some folks don't want to try, or get frustrated by the options. Or declare they are a stomach sleeper (my canoe buddy is one). Hey, this weekend is a hammock "hang out" here in Texas. Maybe one by you. Go and check out options. I want to check out a "Bridge hammock". It is like sleeping in a bath tub. Folks who are stomach sleepers, love them. Or folks who don't like the "pinch" up at the shoulders of a gathered-end hammock.
Anyway, check out that Ultimate Hang book.
And see about a "hang out" near you. Drive over on Saturday, just to check it out and see if hammocks work for you.

[chief]

It's interesting to show up at a nice campsite with plenty of flat ground for tents and plenty of trees for hammocks. The tent or tarp people will pitch their shelters and move on to more important things like hanging out with other campers, cooking and such, while the hammock people will spend a good 20 minutes deciding on the perfect trees to hang from, spend the next 20 minutes setting up the perfect hang, then at least another 20 minutes tweaking their hang or often starting over when perfection eludes them. Tons of fun to watch.

[Just Bill]

just a thought- I spent several summers on just a twenty dollar sporting goods hammock (one step up from the super cheapies, with the built in spreader bars on either end) They always come in handy for car camping, and if you shove a self-inflating mattress in there they are fairly pleasant. Not as flat as a "real" hammock, but a bit like sleeping in a Lazy-Boy. For $20...give it a shot. like this- http://www.amazon.com/Nylon-Hammock-...th+spread+bars Or maybe even this one- with a pad- http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hammaka-Pa...ndingMethod=rr

[Flounder940]

It's interesting to show up at a nice campsite with plenty of flat ground for tents and plenty of trees for hammocks. The tent or tarp people will pitch their shelters and move on to more important things like hanging out with other campers, cooking and such, while the hammock people will spend a good 20 minutes deciding on the perfect trees to hang from, spend the next 20 minutes setting up the perfect hang, then at least another 20 minutes tweaking their hang or often starting over when perfection eludes them. Tons of fun to watch.

That's funny. I seem to recall several times this year on The AT where those with tents spent over well over 20 minutes looking for perfect level ground devoid of rocks or other obstacles. Meanwhile, I had my hammock already set up and was in the process of cooking dinner.

[Nutbrown]

After the learning curve, it takes exactly the same amount of time to set up a tent or a hammock. It's scientifically proven.

[rhjanes]

After the learning curve, it takes exactly the same amount of time to set up a tent or a hammock. It's scientifically proven.

That was what I noticed both years on the Buffalo. My very-experianced canoe buddy in his tent, and me with hammock. We finished within just a few minutes of each other on set up or tear down.
What I DID notice was that by day two or three, he was having sore shoulder pain (me also, due to paddling), but he was usually complaining of a sore back. I'VE got L1 to L7 screwed up from when I was 20 (I'm 55). One year, we hit a downed tree in a class-2 rapid. Half the gear and both of us got rolled out of the canoe. I realized I'd tweaked the rotten back. While he pumped out the canoe and repacked, I stretched the back. That night I took my prescription for the back and two Ibuprofen-PM and went to bed at 9. At daybreak, I carefully tried out the back. MUCH improved. I got up and started packing up. My buddy slowly extracted from his tent, went to bending and toe-touching. He commented about his back and asked how mine was. I just said much improved.

[perdidochas]

It's interesting to show up at a nice campsite with plenty of flat ground for tents and plenty of trees for hammocks. The tent or tarp people will pitch their shelters and move on to more important things like hanging out with other campers, cooking and such, while the hammock people will spend a good 20 minutes deciding on the perfect trees to hang from, spend the next 20 minutes setting up the perfect hang, then at least another 20 minutes tweaking their hang or often starting over when perfection eludes them. Tons of fun to watch.

And then you have to wake up the hammockers in the morning, because they are sleeping so well......

I notice that when I'm hammocking while the Boy Scouts tent, I can get my hammock and tarp down and packed before they have their tents down, much less packed. In a not so perfect area, you'd have the tenters also spending 20 minutes looking for a place without prominent roots.

[Snow>TP]

I made a trip to REI and Dick's yesterday to check out hammock camping gear. It looks like something that Snacktime might enjoy, and everything seemed so light I suspected it might be a weight-saving option. Unfortunately, what I found is that it would actually almost double our shelter weight....requiring each of us to tote our approx. 4lbs instead of the shared 4lb tent.

Also, I didn't care much for the insulation or dryness factors.

you can pee still in your sleeping bag, enjoy great breeze and relaxation, cook in it, I stay dry in hurricanes (tarp closes around hammock), less vegetation trampling on the ground, stay cooler with breeze under your butt, you can hang anywhere with trees.

o and my set up is much lighter than that and cheaper than ENO

www.deepsouthmountaineering.com

So what's the attraction? It still looks so "cool" to me, but the downsides seem to many.

[ChuckT]

I am also in a puzzlement. Seems like Hammock + Fly + Underquilt + Sleeping Bag = ## not #. The dry provides the dryness. Cvt

Dryness factors?

The main attraction is comfort. I don't sleep well when camping. I sleep even less well on the ground. On a hammock, I sleep almost as well as in a bed.