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  1. #21
    Coach Lou coach lou's Avatar
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    Why are we going here!?????????

  2. #22
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Dunno... I already answered the question.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  3. #23
    Registered User DeerPath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckahoe64 View Post
    I fully expect this to be a troll thread to be nuked, however, I will answer this as respectfully and straight forward as I can.

    Now first and foremost, please understand exactly what "stand your ground laws" are and what it means. I know that they have been in the news lately, especially with cases like the Zimmerman trial. But there is an incredible amount of incorrect information and understanding, especially in the media driving an agenda. Stand your ground laws had nothing to do with the Zimmerman trial which was a straight up affirmative self defense case.

    Most every state has either statute (Florida) or through case law (Virginia) established SYG laws. See that? Nearly every state; infact probably the majority of AT states. What such laws establish is that an individual present in any location who has a legal right to be present, has NO duty to retreat from a threat of harm or death when confronted by an assailant. This is a most simple and basic conscept of human rights. That right to defend yourself with force if necessary and not to be a victim. This is such an old English standard of common law, that it has been enshrined in Virginia case law since the 17th century.

    Should a woman be tried for murder because she killed the man attempting to rape her, because she did not retreat from that trail shelter?
    DITTO....... Very well said. Any State or Country that allows you to defend yourself from a perpetrator is the same as "stand your ground".
    Happy Trails
    DeerPath

    LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY
    IN A WELL PRESERVED BODY,
    BUT RATHER SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT,
    SHOUTING "HOLY CRAP....WHAT A RIDE!"

  4. #24

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    If Travon was alive today here's what he'd have to say about the SYG law.
    "Hiking is as close to God as you can get without going to Church." - BobbyJo Sargent aka milkman Sometimes it's nice to take a long walk in THE FOG.

  5. #25
    Coach Lou coach lou's Avatar
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    WOO last week went to NH. Brought some ronis and my sauce. Extra pot to cook it, small extra canister to boil ronis and heat sauce. As I was climbing up to Lonesome Lake, I realised I left the sauce in the cooler , in my car, at the hostel...................I was upset!











    Please change the subject!

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckahoe64 View Post

    What such laws establish is that an individual present in any location who has a legal right to be present, has NO duty to retreat from a threat of harm or death when confronted by an assailant.
    That's what I'm trying to say.

  7. #27
    Registered User Tuckahoe's Avatar
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    I guess I may be spitting into the wind here, but can we not get in a pissing match over the Zimmerman trial? This is certainly a legitimate discussion as it relates to the OP and nothing wrong with the topic as it relates to helping hikers undertanding of the laws that might affect them. BUT PLEASE lets just not get into the BS!
    igne et ferrum est potentas
    "In the beginning, all America was Virginia." -​William Byrd

  8. #28

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    Might as well close this thread, it's a goner. FWIW, I'd love to talk about self defense and the law, but it'd be useless, because people get emotionally undone here.
    I use to teach it in my other life, because use of deadly force in law enforcement is in many cases a self defense issue. And it can get complicated and it's a subject that garners much interest with the students, because of the amount of responsibility and burden placed on armed sentries.


    But this discussion is getting so damn dumb...

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckahoe64 View Post
    I guess I may be spitting into the wind here, but can we not get in a pissing match over the Zimmerman trial? This is certainly a legitimate discussion as it relates to the OP and nothing wrong with the topic as it relates to helping hikers undertanding of the laws that might affect them. BUT PLEASE lets just not get into the BS!
    Agree, good topic...lets stick with this one.

  10. #30
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    It so tough to have a civil discussion... now what does this have to do with backpacking?
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketsocks View Post
    Agree, good topic...lets stick with this one.
    I didn't start the thread and I wasn't the first to bring up Zimmerman, but since it was brought up I responded.

  12. #32
    I certainly was in the right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly View Post
    LOL... yeah right. Was that after Zimmerman hung up from 911 and chased him down?

    There may not be many here that when walking home and accosted by a stranger would act much differently. I'd certainly tell you to GTFO.
    Chased

    Please add "embellished" to spin, emotion and falsehoods. Take any issue, from the designated hitter rule to passing bonds for new fill in the blank.

    One looses credibility (and the debate) with these tactics. We can agee that we disagree, but can we first agree on the facts, avoiding embellishments, spin, emotion and falsehoods?

    Take 9-11; only one flight stood their ground, which prevented additional deaths.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    It so tough to have a civil discussion... now what does this have to do with backpacking?
    Not a thing....unless your attacked in a state that your map shows, and your backpack is not up against a wall, then there is some room for useful discussion.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly View Post
    I didn't start the thread and I wasn't the first to bring up Zimmerman, but since it was brought up I responded.
    oh I fully understand...I can read too

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roche View Post
    Chased

    Please add "embellished" to spin, emotion and falsehoods. Take any issue, from the designated hitter rule to passing bonds for new fill in the blank.

    One looses credibility (and the debate) with these tactics. We can agee that we disagree, but can we first agree on the facts, avoiding embellishments, spin, emotion and falsehoods?

    Take 9-11; only one flight stood their ground, which prevented additional deaths.
    Speaking of embellishment...

    Raw: 911 call Zimmerman made to Sanford police (Explicit)


  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by poopsy View Post
    Maybe I shouldn't be worried about this but does any one know which states have "Stand your ground" laws like Florida's? Does the AT go thru any of them?

    Are any other hikers worried about these laws, especially in Florida? I don't think I want to go hiking there next winter. Hiker entitlement seems to be a popular subject for these forums but maybe we should be worried. Or is it a racial thing?

    Just so you know, I'm not from the US, I get confused about US legal practices and would like to get some perspective.
    "Stand your ground" is not a big deal. Don't get in fights or threaten anybody. I've lived in FL for almost ten years now, and it has never been an issue. Also, the Zimmerman case was not a "stand your ground" issue, but a simple self defense issue, as has been law since the Magna Carta.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly View Post
    If Trayvon were packin' there's a good chance he'd be alive today, and his killer would be the one in the ground.
    If Trayvon kept his hands to himself, as we teach all kids, he would be alive today. Trayvon would be in prison for that. Why? He couldn't get a CCW permit until age 21, so he could not be legally packing.

  18. #38
    Wanna-be hiker trash
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    Quote Originally Posted by poopsy View Post
    Maybe I shouldn't be worried about this but does any one know which states have "Stand your ground" laws like Florida's? Does the AT go thru any of them?

    Are any other hikers worried about these laws, especially in Florida? I don't think I want to go hiking there next winter. Hiker entitlement seems to be a popular subject for these forums but maybe we should be worried. Or is it a racial thing?

    Just so you know, I'm not from the US, I get confused about US legal practices and would like to get some perspective.
    By and large the USA is a safe place, and the A.T. is one if the safest places in the entire country.

    Always remember that our media is for profit and has no incentive to portray the world in an accurate way. If they came on the air every day to report that 99.99% of people were safe and sound, then it would be boring and nobody would watch. They stay in business by constantly bombarding us with the 0.01% of life that is miserable and tragic.
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  19. #39
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly View Post

    What is your point Sly?
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    What is your point Sly?
    The point is Zimmerman couldn't help himself but follow (chase) Martin even though he called the cops and they were coming. (he was told not to follow him!) If he let the cops do their job, the kid would still be alive. Lets hope it's not a relative of yours the next time.

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