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  1. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Furlough View Post
    Being a federal employee who is currently furloughed you are wrong. As part of what was termed close out procedures on day one of the furlough we came into work and had to update our automated time card system with a code that equals no pay due. If you are a federal employee in an "excepted" status, you come to work, but as of now you are in a no pay due status. There is no guarantee that anyone civilian federal employee who is now furloughed will get back pay. This situation is different than last time 17 years ago when folks got their pay back retroactively. Back then the federal budget and the national economy were solvent enough that the dollars were available, not true this time around.
    I will bet you a $20 you get paid retro.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasty View Post
    The park service tried and failed to block the groups of disabled WW2 vets that get flown to DC on WW2 bombers to see the WW2 memorial.
    My bad. I thought it was about the AT.
    The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
    You never know which one is talking.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasty View Post
    I will bet you a $20 you get paid retro.
    Everyone is banking on that, but there is no guarentee. But I can tell for sure that we got nothing back for the Furloughs from this past summer.
    "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L’Amour

  4. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    i'm sure they'll have a big impact
    i'm sure they will not LNT if they do "occupy"

  5. #145

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    I am driving home from a solo overnighter at Spy Rock, which is in GWNF i believe--

    Didnt have any problems with rangers at the fish hatchery road, but did share the same negative sentiment about whats going on in Washington with the few day hikers taking advantage.

    wake up! IMPROVISE and do not let this shutdown affect your outdoor experiences. there is always an open door somewhere

    its OUR property

    we're headed back out Friday morning again too-- we rented a PATC cabin adjoining Shenandoah on private land...that has trails directly into the park.
    bet theyll have a ranger posted up but i do feel very bad for all the people who rented cabins within the park

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by da fungo View Post
    It might be easier to understand some bizarre behavior if you recall that the people still working have been told that they have to work but they'll only get paid someday in the sweet bye and bye. And, since they're mission essential, if they refuse to come to work, they'll be fired. Plus, whenever they do encounter the public, they get ****e for a situation that victimizes them, too. Pretty difficult to stay all cheery and Ranger Rick with that going on.
    I totally sympathize.

    Unlike federal employees (whom I hope will get paid retroactively), our business inside the Park has zero possibility of ever recovering one cent of the money we are losing every day of the shutdown.

    closed Park = no customers for store = no point in opening store = employees don't get scheduled to work = employees are poorer
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

    ME>GA 2006
    http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277

    Instagram hiking photos: five.leafed.clover

  7. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Furlough View Post
    Being a federal employee who is currently furloughed you are wrong. As part of what was termed close out procedures on day one of the furlough we came into work and had to update our automated time card system with a code that equals no pay due. If you are a federal employee in an "excepted" status, you come to work, but as of now you are in a no pay due status. There is no guarantee that anyone civilian federal employee who is now furloughed will get back pay. This situation is different than last time 17 years ago when folks got their pay back retroactively. Back then the federal budget and the national economy were solvent enough that the dollars were available, not true this time around.
    actually, back in 1996, the last time this happened, furloughed federal employees weren't guaranteed back pay, either. It took a specific act of Congress, after that crisis was resolved, to authorize back pay then, just as it will take a specific act of Congress when the current situation resolves. Unfortunately, attitudes are even more set in concrete now than then, and this time there is the added controversy about the debt ceiling - neither factor lending to a speedy resolution of the problem, nor to a Congressional attitude of support for back pay.

  8. #148

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    i posted this in groups so apologies to the 3 people who have already read it.

    I think Kennesaw Mountain National Battlefield Park is handling the closure perfectly.

    They have 18 employees; 14 were furloughed and 4 law enforcement officers still working. Obviously, the visitor center, museum, souvenier shop, theater, and main parking lot are all closed. However, the satellite parking lots remain open. These lots are gated so it would be easy to close them if they wanted to. The law enforcement officers are telling everyone that the park is closed, but are allowing anyone to enter the park and use the 20 miles of hiking trails after warning them that they are entering "at their own risk" and to be careful.

  9. #149

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    Everyone keeps mentioning that "it's our park", which is true, but in a rather abstract manner.

    At the same time, everyone seems to forget history. When the Bonus Army marched on Washington, DC in 1932, the National Mall was "their property", too. That didn't stop Herbert Hoover from ordering Douglas MacArthur to use Army troops to clear federal property.

  10. #150
    Registered User ChinMusic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da fungo View Post
    Everyone keeps mentioning that "it's our park", which is true, but in a rather abstract manner.

    At the same time, everyone seems to forget history. When the Bonus Army marched on Washington, DC in 1932, the National Mall was "their property", too. That didn't stop Herbert Hoover from ordering Douglas MacArthur to use Army troops to clear federal property.
    Well, that wouldn't make for a pretty picture, clearing out all those WWII vets.
    Fear ridges that are depicted as flat lines on a profile map.

  11. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    Well, that wouldn't make for a pretty picture, clearing out all those WWII vets.
    It didn't make a pretty picture back then, either.

    This governmental closure stuff isn't simple, and it isn't intuitive.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by da fungo View Post
    It didn't make a pretty picture back then, either.

    This governmental closure stuff isn't simple, and it isn't intuitive.
    Visiting a mall and taking it over are two totally different things.
    Fear ridges that are depicted as flat lines on a profile map.

  13. #153

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    Sorry guys, the mall issue isn't a hiking issue, please refrain from discussing it here. Thanks.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
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  14. #154
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    I have found the anecdotal reports of rangers saying the "park is closed" and then look the other way, as the way to play this. I hope our SOBO brethren run into this more than some harda$$s. It still leaves roads being closed. I cannot recall how many areas that would affect resupply. I'm thinking the SNP would be a nightmare for resupply if the roads were closed.
    Fear ridges that are depicted as flat lines on a profile map.

  15. #155
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    I find it kind of nice that the rangers at the different areas have some control over how they handle the closures, but at the same time, I wish each place would post up on its website what exactly they are allowing.

  16. #156

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    They can't post on their web sites: The National Park Service has shut down the entire domain until the government closure is over.

    Here's what you see if you try to access them:


  17. #157
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    From my good friends at Delaware North Companies Parks & Resorts that run the concessions at Shenandoah (and many other National Parks)

    http://www.goshenandoah.com/Governme...formation.aspx

    We are monitoring the government shutdown and are working closely with the National Park Service to ensure we have the most current information available related to the closures. We are contacting our lodging guests and providing a refund if a guest is not able to change his or her reservation. All NPS entrance gates are closed. All areas outside of the immediate lodging areas are also closed which includes hiking trails and backcountry areas.
    The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
    You never know which one is talking.

  18. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by da fungo View Post
    They can't post on their web sites: The National Park Service has shut down the entire domain until the government closure is over.
    Here's what you see if you try to access them:

    NPS Closed.jpg

  19. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by max patch View Post
    i posted this in groups so apologies to the 3 people who have already read it.

    I think Kennesaw Mountain National Battlefield Park is handling the closure perfectly.

    They have 18 employees; 14 were furloughed and 4 law enforcement officers still working. Obviously, the visitor center, museum, souvenier shop, theater, and main parking lot are all closed. However, the satellite parking lots remain open. These lots are gated so it would be easy to close them if they wanted to. The law enforcement officers are telling everyone that the park is closed, but are allowing anyone to enter the park and use the 20 miles of hiking trails after warning them that they are entering "at their own risk" and to be careful.
    Well, the satellite parking lots were closed today after being open the last 2. Still no indication that the policy of letting hikers "hike at their own risk" as reported in the front page of the local newspaper has changed.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshbirder View Post
    We were discussing Dolly Sods on the WV birding listserv yesterday. I believe the Mon National Forest is open, but the campgrounds and visitor center are closed. Read the posts about banding at Dolly Sods and Mon NF:

    http://birding.aba.org/maillist/WV
    Thanks, MB. By the time I saw this, our group had already decided to switch our trip and go to Grayson Highlands instead. Not a bad consolation I guess!

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