What happen if National Parks close?

[da fungo]

​Other than SNP and GSMNP where else does the trail go through NPS land?

The southern 20 or so miles in New Jersey is within the Delaware Water Gap NRA, managed by the Park Service. But one White Blazer drove to the Dunnfield Creek parking area this morning, saw many cars in the parking area, no signs or markings of closure, and some state park employees he met said they'd seen no federal efforts to enforce a closure.

[HikerMom58]

And this from the ATC site.

The Appalachian Trail is now officially closed across the approximately 700 miles managed by the National Park Service. Because of the shutdown, all National Park Service – Volunteers In Parks (VIP) and USDA Forest Service - Volunteer In Forests (VIF) volunteer programs will be terminated. Therefore, for the duration of the shutdown, the ATC will not be able to engage with volunteers in activities on the Trail, Trail facilities, or Trail lands. We also are required to close our visitor center in Boiling Springs, PA.

​Other than SNP and GSMNP where else does the trail go through NPS land?

It must go through Central VA.... just got back from the trail head at Rt.311 in Catawba. There was a closed trail sign posted at the trail crossing. I must say the sign looked "lame". Almost like it was just put up as a "formality".

No mention of trespassing or fines for not staying off the trail. The parking lot was overflowing with cars as usual. Hikers were out in full force to hike McAfee Knob.

I noticed the ridgerunner had signed in on the trail register today. People I talked to were saying he was on the trail with everyone else just mentioning that the trail was closed, if someone asked about it.

The thing that struck me about the posted sign- there was no mention of the length of the trail closure in VA. How much of the trail is closed?? Is it from Rt. 311 north to Waynesboro and south too- ????

The sign simply said the trail was closed per the government. The sign wasn't very big & rather smallish black letters on white paper.

[Mrs Baggins]

And since the AT follows the C&O Canal for 3 miles here's what NPS says is going on there.

• Visitor traffic, whether on foot, bike, or horse, is strictly prohibited.
• Bicyclists planning rides from Pittsburgh to DC on the GAP and C&O Canal should plan to turn back at Cumberland.
• All Visitors Centers are CLOSED.
• Hiker/Bikers and campgrounds are CLOSED.
• The Canal Quarters lockhouses are CLOSED.
• All restroom facilities, both permanent and portable, are CLOSED.
• Handles have been removed from all well pumps.
• The only Park staff that will be on duty will be law enforcement rangers.
• The portion of the Capital Crescent Trail that runs parallel to the towpath in DC is managed by the C&O Canal NHP and is CLOSED.
• All access roads to the Park are CLOSED. This means you will not be able to trailer boats to boat ramps along the towpath.
• Interpretive and educational programming in the Park will be temporarily suspended. School field trips to the Park will need to be rescheduled once Park staff has returned.
• Volunteer events and events requiring special use permits will not be able to take place.
• All volunteers working in an official capacity should cease volunteer activities immediately and not enter the Park's premises.

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/c...ns/topics/9345

Uummm.....yeah. No. I am in touch with a biker on the towpath. She left Cumberland on Wednesday morning, along with what she said was many other bikers, and she was in Harpers Ferry today. Her only complaint was that the Fed had removed all of the water pump handles in the primitive campgrounds, so hikers and bikers had to go off the towpath to find water. Other than that...no problem biking along.

[Marta]

Over in Glacier, the rangers have eased up about letting customers enter the Park in order to visit the two open stores--Eddie's and Montana House in Apgar. They even let us put up a sign at the blockade to state that the stores are open. It was a gorgeous day and a few people were shopping...and walking along the sidewalk towards Lake McDonald. The rangers didn't seem to be bothering people as long as they didn't try to get further into the Park or use the boat ramp.

As I was leaving for work the last couple of days I've noticed the construction crews coming to work on the Going to the Sun Rd. project. I assume they figure they'll get paid eventually, and aren't going to waste the last couple weeks of the construction season.

[genetic claybuilding]

I'm sure this has been mentioned several times already, but I don't have the time to search for it. So if someone could give me a quick answer:

Are the road entrances to the GSMNP barricaded?

If not, does anyone have informed information whether your car would be towed by the NPS if you park at a trailhead within the park?

Thanks.

[MuddyWaters]

Major roads into the park, such as to Cades Cove, are gated and closed.

441 is obviously not. There could also be minor dirt/gravel roads that dont have gates and might only be posted, hard to say.

The parking area and overlook on 441 is "supposed" to be closed as well.

Something like 40+ law enforcement personnel still remain on duty in the park. Getting your car towed would be the least of your worries. You would recieve a substantial fine, and probably jailed with criminal charges. All they have to do is run your tags.

Forget whatever you are thinking.

1002_KCLO_Shutdown02_MP_t607.JPG

[da fungo]

Just so you know:

Trespassing in a national park carries a maximum fine of $500 and up to six months in jail, according to the Criminal Resource Manual issued to U.S. attorneys.

Source

Also:

TITLE 18 § 1863. Trespass on national forest lands
Whoever, without lawful authority or permission, goes upon any national-forest land while it is closed to the public pursuant to lawful regulation of the Secretary of Agriculture, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

See also, 16 USC § 21, 28 USC § 2415, and 42 USC § 2278a. (National Parks, Native American and public lands, federally regulated facilities, such as nuke plants).

[genetic claybuilding]

Thanks for the legal warnings, counsel.

Please keep future replies on point. Thanks.

[da fungo]

Thanks for the legal warnings, counsel.

Please keep future replies on point. Thanks.

What's off point about letting people know what they possibly face if they chose to go into closed areas?

[MuddyWaters]

I was just at Fontana Dam yesterday, the dam is open, the dam parking lot is open and will remain so I was told with hikers parking there for other trips south of there.

There is no chance of being towed there, at least. That is outside the park boundary. Yesterday there were still hikers showing up not realizing the park was closed.

[HikerMom58]

Just got back from Jennings Creek- VA 614 (near Cove Mt. Shelter) ... no trail closure signs in that area, that we could find.

[HooKooDooKu]

Are the road entrances to the GSMNP barricaded?

All 'tourist' roads are closed. This would include things like Clingman's Dome, Roaring Fork, and Little River Road.

441 is different. Without getting technical, this isn't so much a National Park Road as it is a thoroughfare between Gatlinburg and Cherokee. As such, you my travel 441 to get between these cities. But you may not use 441 to access any part of the National Park.

So as I understand it, every road in GSMNP is closed except for 441, the Gatlinburg Bypass, and the roads that connect these roads together.

[Mrs Baggins]

We were driving up to Biglerville PA to buy apples and took the off-ramp from Hwy 15 that goes thru Gettysburg NP land. They have all of the access roads to the battlefield, monuments, and to the cemetery completely closed off. They blocked off the parking lot that everyone uses for the cemetery and then locked the gates to the cemetery itself. I was supposed to lead a hike of the battlefield on Wednesday but now I'm looking for another hike to do that day.

[BabySue]

Headed to Tellico Gap soon. Seems like that area should be accessible ... right? Thanks.

[colorado_rob]

Just so you know:

Trespassing in a national park carries a maximum fine of $500 and up to six months in jail, according to the Criminal Resource Manual issued to U.S. attorneys.

Source

Also:

TITLE 18 § 1863. Trespass on national forest lands
Whoever, without lawful authority or permission, goes upon any national-forest land while it is closed to the public pursuant to lawful regulation of the Secretary of Agriculture, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

See also, 16 USC § 21, 28 USC § 2415, and 42 USC § 2278a. (National Parks, Native American and public lands, federally regulated facilities, such as nuke plants).

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[Mrs Baggins]

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What is so hard to understand about that? Break the law, suffer the fine. Pretty simple.

[Namtrag]

We just hiked in Mt Rogers NRA, which is a usfs administered area. No closure signs, and lots and lots of people, many of them students from UNC and NC State. It was business as usual from what I could see. The pit toilet at Scales was not locked.

[Prime Time]

We just hiked in Mt Rogers NRA, which is a usfs administered area. No closure signs, and lots and lots of people, many of them students from UNC and NC State. It was business as usual from what I could see. The pit toilet at Scales was not locked.

No one is going to stop anyone from hiking on the AT. How and why would they?

[Theosus]

No one is going to stop anyone from hiking on the AT. How and why would they?

1. because they can
2. to prove a point
3. just wait until you cross the road with a pack on in the GSMNP or some other national park
4. to make money
5. because its really boring out there not helping lost tourists and catching poachers and whatnot

[MuddyWaters]

Primarily its national parks that are closed.
They are designated as national treasures, and are heavily staffed to protect them, as well as educate and control visitors to prevent damage to them

Other areas are not as irreplaceable and so are not.