AT Roadside Resident with bad taste for AT

[Statue]

OP, surprised you didn't ask the homeowner if you could step inside and make a sandwich. It is the Deli Walk after all.

[Lone Wolf]

Since the guy obviously knows his property abuts the trail, rather than playing games, he needs to post his property.

wrong slick. it's a no-brainer. stay on the freakin' marked path.

[modiyooch]

IMO, anyone that would refuse water to someone that's thirsty has the bigger problem.

define thirsty. He was in MD, within 3 miles or less from springs.

[rickb]

I think there are guys in this thread who probably wouldn't have ever asked a pretty girl for a kiss.

Or a boss for a raise.

I chose not to live in fear of offending. Skulking around someone's bushes looking for a spigot is not cool, but that is hardly the situation described.

[mikec]

I thought the Deli Walk on the AT was in NJ/NY?

[stranger]

So I went to MD and as I crossed foxville rd/md 77 I needed water, so I walked up to the closest house and knocked on the door, no answer, very thirsty, saw a hose, turned it on and started to fill up my bottle...soap, coming out of a hose? Anyways, I dumped out my bottle and didnt really feel right getting water I hadnt gotten permission for anyways so i turn it off and walk around front of house. The next door neighbor is standing at his door 50 yards away. I put a smile on my face and walk over, " hey sir, really thirsty here mind if i fill up my bottles?" He said sure and i proceeded to do so. He thanked me for knocking and asking before I got water, and he concurred that he owned the house next door as a rental. He then went into his speech about how he is sour that the gov. took his land to reroute the AT and that if he sees people get water fromt he rental house he walks over and tells them to dump the water out and move along. I thanked him and moved along.

Anyone hear of this guy? on nb side of the street and on the left when heading nobo
and i guess lesson learned is dont get water you havent asked for

So you asked a guy for water and he said yes...the same guy doesn't like it when people trespass on his property and fill up their water bottles without asking permission...what a BASTARD!

[FlyPaper]

Details matter but I see nothing inherently wrong with anything th OP did. This is still America home of the free-- not home of the paranoid. Perhpas if we had higher expectations of others, we would be more giving ourselves.

Filling your bottle from a hose laying in the front yard after you have knocked on the home's front door on a hot day is no worse than taking home the the ball that David Ortiz is sure to hit out of the park tonight.

Sorry you had to read all the crap, GM.

Getting yourself in a jam and asking for water is not inherently wrong, but we should think about what we're doing from that person's perspective.

I have NEVER had anyone knock on my door and ask for water. If they did, I'd probably be glad for the opportunity to help. But, I live no where near a trail. This guy in MD lives right by the Appalachian Trail. How often should he cheerfully answer his door to give out water? Once a week? Three times a week? Three times per day? No telling how often it happens, but clearly this guy has people approach his house often to get water. He has the freedom to say "no", but that cannot be a serious counter argument. The actual cost of filling to Nalgene bottles is probably less than a penny. The cost of the water is not a factor. In order to say "no", they guy still has to deal with the interruption to whatever he's doing. You have to answer the door to say "no".

And this could happen while he's eating, watching football, taking a nap, or having romantic time with his wife. And why are people needing water there? When I hiked through that section, I carried enough water that I didn't have to knock on someone's door. It wasn't hard, but perhaps I was a tad slower going up those massive 500' climbs in the area. The people that stopped at his house, for the most part worked out all the logistics to be hiking the AT, including rides, gear, food, fitness, time off work, money, etc., but somehow failed to carry enough water to go 8 or 9 miles at this point on the trail.

It's one thing if you sprain your ankle, have to dry camp at an unexpected time, and then hobble to someone's door for help the next day. But if we're just in an ordinary hike, we need to carry enough supplies that we don't need to bother the people that live near the trail. If they want to interact with hikers at the times of their choosing, fine. But otherwise we need to be courteous and not bother them.

[MDSection12]

I'm going hiking today. I think I'll do some reverse trail magic and knock on this guy's door with a Nalgene of fresh spring water.

[vamelungeon]

Getting yourself in a jam and asking for water is not inherently wrong, but we should think about what we're doing from that person's perspective.

I have NEVER had anyone knock on my door and ask for water. If they did, I'd probably be glad for the opportunity to help. But, I live no where near a trail. This guy in MD lives right by the Appalachian Trail. How often should he cheerfully answer his door to give out water? Once a week? Three times a week? Three times per day? No telling how often it happens, but clearly this guy has people approach his house often to get water. He has the freedom to say "no", but that cannot be a serious counter argument. The actual cost of filling to Nalgene bottles is probably less than a penny. The cost of the water is not a factor. In order to say "no", they guy still has to deal with the interruption to whatever he's doing. You have to answer the door to say "no".

And this could happen while he's eating, watching football, taking a nap, or having romantic time with his wife. And why are people needing water there? When I hiked through that section, I carried enough water that I didn't have to knock on someone's door. It wasn't hard, but perhaps I was a tad slower going up those massive 500' climbs in the area. The people that stopped at his house, for the most part worked out all the logistics to be hiking the AT, including rides, gear, food, fitness, time off work, money, etc., but somehow failed to carry enough water to go 8 or 9 miles at this point on the trail.

It's one thing if you sprain your ankle, have to dry camp at an unexpected time, and then hobble to someone's door for help the next day. But if we're just in an ordinary hike, we need to carry enough supplies that we don't need to bother the people that live near the trail. If they want to interact with hikers at the times of their choosing, fine. But otherwise we need to be courteous and not bother them.

This!! If someone asked me if they could get have some water I'd give it to them, but I wouldn't like it at all if they just helped themselves unless it was an emergency. Common courtesy, which is apparently not so common, sadly.

[Likeapuma]

Since the guy obviously knows his property abuts the trail, rather than playing games, he needs to post his property.

Why should he have to put in the work? It's private property. You should have enough common sense to stay off property you don't belong on.





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[Another Kevin]

Why should he have to put in the work? It's private property. You should have enough common sense to stay off property you don't belong on.

Note that I don't have a problem with the guy knocking on a door - that's not generally considered uncivilized, and I do have a problem with his just helping himself.

But I suppose I'm from a bygone time. I don't go onto the curtilage¹ of a house. Generally, if it's obviously a yard - fenced in, or mowed as a lawn, or someone's vegetable garden - I'll enter only on what appears to be the path to the front door, and only if I have a reason to be knocking on the door.

But if a farmer or forest owner doesn't trouble to post, (1) it's not always clear where the public land ends and the private land begins, (2) the landowner may tolerate public access. The way I was brought up, if a farmer didn't post, it was all right to traverse a farm on the way into or out of the woods if you were unarmed (hunters are often NOT welcome), careful to follow fences and hedgerows (NEVER tread on crops!), left gates as you found them, didn't disturb livestock, didn't take or leave anything, and left immediately if asked to do so.

Even today, I've seen a fair number of holdings that are posted NO HUNTING, TRAPPING OR FISHING (rather than NO TRESPASSING), or give contact information and have ASK PERMISSION stickers on the posters.
ask.gif
(These stickers indicate that permission may be routinely granted to recreational users.)

Even if posters don't have the ASK PERMISSION sticker, if they give adequate contact information, I don't hesitate to contact a landowner in advance to ask - as the proverb goes, "they don't shoot you for askin'". There are several hikes near here - including access to a couple of the listed high peaks - that require crossing private land. I find that the landowners are often so happy to be asked that they grant permission readily, at least outside of hunting season. (In New York State, I also try to get them to sign the standard permission slip, since having a signed permission card is a pretty darned good defense to a trespassing charge.)

¹ Curtilage: the land immediately surrounding a house or dwelling, including any closely associated buildings and structures, but excluding any associated "open fields beyond". It delineates the boundary within which a home owner can have a reasonable expectation of privacy and where "intimate home activities" take place.

[max patch]

(In New York State, I also try to get them to sign the standard permission slip, since having a signed permission card is a pretty darned good defense to a trespassing charge.)

Seriously? If you asked permission to walk my property I'd give it to ya. If you then whipped out a permission slip and asked me to sign it I'd tell ya take a hike. And not on my property. No offense, but thats a bunch of BS.

[max patch]

Back in the day I remember a homeowner in one of those residential type road walks who had a sign on his mailbox inviting thru hikers to go to the backyard and use their swimming pool if they wanted to. I guess times have changed.

[Mags]

Back in the day I remember a homeowner in one of those residential type road walks who had a sign on his mailbox inviting thru hikers to go to the backyard and use their swimming pool if they wanted to. I guess times have changed.

Considering the amount of hikers on the AT (and the PCT for that matter) vs years past, I can see why.

Hosting a few dozen hikers a year over the course of several weeks or even months could be interesting and fun for the right person.

Hosting a few dozen hikers in a week strains the resources of many people who are not running a business.

Donna Saufley, well known PCT trail angel 450 miles up on the PCT (NoBo) now has a 50 person limit so she would not be overwhelmed, for example (and 50 ppl is still a lot by most standards)

So it goes.

[max patch]

Donna Saufley, well known PCT trail angel 450 miles up on the PCT (NoBo) now has a 50 person limit so she would not be overwhelmed, for example (and 50 ppl is still a lot by most standards)

50 at a time?! She must be a saint. Or crazy. Or perhaps a bit of both.

i'm going to show my ignorance of the PCT by stating that I'm surprised that the hiker level is such that 50 hikers would even be in the same place at the same time. I had no idea.

[bfayer]

Seriously? If you asked permission to walk my property I'd give it to ya. If you then whipped out a permission slip and asked me to sign it I'd tell ya take a hike. And not on my property. No offense, but thats a bunch of BS.

In Michigan you have to get permission to hunt on someone's farm land, posted or not. So permission slips are pretty common even if it doesn't involve hunting.

In fact if someone asks me to use my land, I ask them to sign a liability waiver so if they get hurt, I at least have something to show the judge if they try to sue me. It also protects them from the DNR officers that go wherever they please anytime they please and never ask permission. Funny how that works.

[Another Kevin]

Seriously? If you asked permission to walk my property I'd give it to ya. If you then whipped out a permission slip and asked me to sign it I'd tell ya take a hike. And not on my property. No offense, but thats a bunch of BS.

I point out that it's protecting them, since the top half is a signed waiver absolving them from liability if I screw up. And, as bfayer points out, it also protects me from the DEC officers (the NY counterpart of the DNR officers, with similar habits).

[max patch]

So the greatest nation on earth has been reduced to having its adults carrying around a bunch of permission slips?

Shakespeare had the right idea.

[bfayer]

So the greatest nation on earth has been reduced to having its adults carrying around a bunch of permission slips?

Shakespeare had the right idea.

There is a reason I prefer to live in Virginia

The world up North is a little different than down here.

[Tuckahoe]

Seriously? If you asked permission to walk my property I'd give it to ya. If you then whipped out a permission slip and asked me to sign it I'd tell ya take a hike. And not on my property. No offense, but thats a bunch of BS.

So the greatest nation on earth has been reduced to having its adults carrying around a bunch of permission slips?

Shakespeare had the right idea.

No need to get a lil worked up. These are principles long established in common law, statues and case law.

The single most effective defence to charge of criminal tresspass, hunting without permission on unposted land, and hunting on posted land is to have the written permission of the land owner or legal costodian.

As a shooter, it is considered good form to ask for and get written permission to use a landowner's property. And every land owner I have ever asked has happily provided the written permission. The only time I didnt get it is because they wanted to shoot with us; didnt need the permission then.

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting...teproperty.asp

http://virginiacriminallawyers.vatra.../trespass.html

http://www.ehow.com/info_8603844_pen...-virginia.html

There is a reason I prefer to live in Virginia The world up North is a little different than down here.

I tend to agree with you and I will never live anywhere but Virginia. But Virginia has pretty well established tresspass laws that are not really different than anyplace else.