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  1. #261
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    I know one black person who spent some time with them and found out they had some interesting ideas about race. I've observed them personally since the early nineties when I first encountered the "yashuas" recruiting in the parking lots of grateful dead shows. They are whacked. They don't want members to associate with their families or anyone from their previous life. They all wear a silly pony tail and make the women dress funny. If that doesn't say it all, then the child abuse allegations and other stuff ought to complete the picture. They are without a doubt the very definition of a mind-sucking cult. The yerba mate brownies are pretty good though. Caveat emptor.

  2. #262
    Registered User Wolf - 23000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfitz View Post
    I know one black person who spent some time with them and found out they had some interesting ideas about race. I've observed them personally since the early nineties when I first encountered the "yashuas" recruiting in the parking lots of grateful dead shows. They are whacked. They don't want members to associate with their families or anyone from their previous life. They all wear a silly pony tail and make the women dress funny. If that doesn't say it all, then the child abuse allegations and other stuff ought to complete the picture. They are without a doubt the very definition of a mind-sucking cult. The yerba mate brownies are pretty good though. Caveat emptor.
    bfitz,

    WELL PUT! What many hikers who plan on staying there is if the cops do a raid on the 12-tribes home again, they arrest EVERYONE!!! It is not the police job to decided if they are part of the 12-tribe. That is someone the hiker's lawyer and the prosecutor has to sort out.
    Wolf

  3. #263

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    Quote Originally Posted by bfitz View Post
    I know one black person who spent some time with them and found out they had some interesting ideas about race. I've observed them personally since the early nineties when I first encountered the "yashuas" recruiting in the parking lots of grateful dead shows. They are whacked. They don't want members to associate with their families or anyone from their previous life. They all wear a silly pony tail and make the women dress funny. If that doesn't say it all, then the child abuse allegations and other stuff ought to complete the picture. They are without a doubt the very definition of a mind-sucking cult. The yerba mate brownies are pretty good though. Caveat emptor.
    Damn, as much as I like to argue with Bfitz, I can't find anything to disagree with here. This is a great thread a group that purposely spends weeks cold wet tired and hungry, in filthy clothing, eating dehydrated crap and sleeping on the ground calling another group a cult. I love it.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    Damn, as much as I like to argue with Bfitz, I can't find anything to disagree with here. This is a great thread a group that purposely spends weeks cold wet tired and hungry, in filthy clothing, eating dehydrated crap and sleeping on the ground calling another group a cult. I love it.
    *It takes a cult to know one?




    *warning: this post contains the meaning of life for you deep thinkers.



  5. #265
    A♣ K♣ Q♣ J♣ 10♣ Luddite's Avatar
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    I ran into these guys when I was on a hitchhiking trip with a friend. We met this dude wearing a Jesus robe and he asked if we were hungry and needed a place to stay for the night. They had this farm on the outside of town and after they gave us a tour and sang songs to us we realized they were a cult. But the dude ended up giving us a 2 hour ride to where we needed to go because we told him we would come back and stay with them. Of course we didn't. Stay away from those people. They only want your money.
    Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit, and as vital to our lives as water and good bread.
    -Edward Abbey

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    Damn, as much as I like to argue with Bfitz, I can't find anything to disagree with here. This is a great thread a group that purposely spends weeks cold wet tired and hungry, in filthy clothing, eating dehydrated crap and sleeping on the ground calling another group a cult. I love it.
    Hikers ain't a cult cuz there's no dear leader. We're more like UFO crazies or something. What some might call fringe. BTW...does anyone know of a thru-hiker who used the 12 T's hostel that has joined up?

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
    ... just visit the "Rick A. Ross Institute of New Jersey For The Study of Destructive Cults, Controversial Groups, and Movements" web site at

    http://www.rickross.com

    Seems ANYBODY not in the fundamentalist mainstream is "destructive" and "controversial" and generally a spawn of Satan, or at least gets painted with the same broad brush.

    I'm already starting to LIKE the Twelve Tribes, if RARI is an enemy.

    My daughter Grass stayed with them on her way through VT last year, and she liked them so much that she and I stopped off and visited with them on the drive back to Tennessee. Out of the mainstream of American consumerism, conspicuous consumption, faux religious orthodox fundamentalism, and the like? You betcha. Thank God for that.

    I'd say their kids have as much chance of choosing a religion as small town Southern Baptist (or you fill in another fundamentalist denomination) kids do. Religious brain-washing is religious brain-washing. Being a 20-year-old cult or a 2,000-year-old cult (a thousand years with the Lord is as a day) if the same if it practices thought control. Many of the mainstream denominations are just as bad in my book.

    Rain Man

    .
    I don't think "2,000 year old cult" would be the best way to refer to the "Christian Church." To compare any denomination of the Christian faith today to the church mentioned in Acts is almost laughable.

    I do agree in that some mainstream denominations are just as bad. One of my best friends has told me some horror stories about his old Pentecostal church. I have met two others in college that have similar stories. Beatings, verbal abuse, the pastor has a lake house while the congregation is penniless, etc.
    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do."

    -Bob Dylan

  8. #268

    Default Rutland and "The Twelve Tribes" Hostel

    I had a gay teacher in high school, a famous atheist, who believes that all Christians are cultists: http://wasm.us/ He wrote a thick biography of non-theists, "Who's Who in Hell". Suffice it to say, his experiences in life drove him to such a tortured view of society.

    Churches are where babies are christened, where couples are married, and where solemn or upbeat funerals are held. They are where people come together to share their lives according to ethical standards and firmly-held beliefs. Without church many people are lost.

    Check out www.factnet.net for coverage of various cults.

    My belief is that without the rule of law, anarchy takes over. Self-regulation of social groups is vital so that the government does not have to come in to do an investigation. No one wants another Jonestown, a "Heaven's Gate" calamity, a Waco situation, or another Baghwan cult: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osho_%2...ee_Rajneesh%29

    Our families and friendships are protections against cults.

  9. #269

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    Quote Originally Posted by bfitz View Post
    Hikers ain't a cult cuz there's no dear leader. ...
    Baltimore Jack?

  10. #270
    Doting Membrane Skidsteer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcli4 View Post
    Baltimore Jack?
    Well...At least we'd have something better to drink than grape Kool-Aid for the grand finale.
    Skids

    Insanity: Asking about inseams over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)

  11. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidsteer View Post
    Well...At least we'd have something better to drink than grape Kool-Aid for the grand finale.


  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcli4 View Post
    Baltimore Jack?
    Dear? Leader?

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenmtnboy View Post
    Our families and friendships are protections against cults.
    Yep. That's why any organisation that encourages you to sever such ties is immediately suspect.

    As far as christianity being a cult...well, some sects definitely fit the bill. My personal feeling is whatever gets you through your day. Whether it's glass of wine and a bit of meditation or being comforted by burying your head in some primitive mythology...if you do no harm to the world and people around you, you're ok with me.


    And to Rainman...plenty of ways to avoid negative aspects of modern society without signing on for all the other crazy stuff.

  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenmtnboy View Post
    Our families and friendships are protections against cults.
    greenmtnboy,

    If only that was true. I lost a very close friend due to the twelve-tribe of 12 years. She was like a sister to me. Even as close friends as we were, having tribe-members that you live with, eat with, sleep with 24 hours 7 days a week telling you our friendships is wrong - after 5 years she gave in. That is what the twelve tribes stand for.

    Wolf

  15. #275

    Default Rutland and "The Twelve Tribes" Hostel

    Ultimately a friend or family member has to offer more to the member of a mind-controlling group than friendship. Work, living situation, caring relationships need to be there so the cult member has something as a reason to leave. A lot of people join cults because their living situation was intolerable, alcoholism, drug abuse, emotional abuse, meaninglessness in general living conditions--a cult group can offer unconditional acceptance and friendship when you have real unhappiness before. But joining a cult can be like going from the frying pan into the fire. If the cult member's parents go into panic mode and tell everyone their kid has gone crazy and even give an interview to the media to likewise vent their anger against their son/daughter who has gone off the deep-end--"why would he/she do this to us?" such a loving family, etc.. Most families only make things worse as they hire de-programmers, psychologists, talk to priests, gang-up against the "evil" cult while of course the alcoholic parents are spotless as the lamb...

    If you check out some of the posts at FactNet and other relevant sites, you will come across productive ideas, and solutions for the cult/sect member who may be a bit confused about what he/she wants. The worst thing a family can do is try to twist the free will of the family member and distort and deny the reason why the son/daughter wanted to get away from a toxic family situation. My reason for looking for a conservative religous group had to do with my disgust with alcoholism, drug addiction in an older brother, the liberal, unfriendly, narcissistic society, the rock-drug-sex counter-culture, etc.. In truth, the problem is within me as I seek a solution outside of myself. I think we all know what the solutions are for ourselves, individually. But sometimes what we are going through at a given point is so painful that we look for desperate, or absolutist solutions.

  16. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by bfitz View Post
    Hikers ain't a cult cuz there's no dear leader. We're more like UFO crazies or something. What some might call fringe. BTW...does anyone know of a thru-hiker who used the 12 T's hostel that has joined up?
    Actually for the past 4 years, at the Long Trail Festival, I have asked hikers who have stayed there if anyone has even approached them to join. Not one time has has anyone been approached. Granted this is a small sample, ony a dozen, however the claim that they offer this service completely as a method of attracting members is clearly false. It just might be that they actually believe in following Christian beliefs. I know it is hard for cynics to understand this concept.

  17. #277

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    I doubt they set out to recruit or proselytize the hikers, aggressively. I spoke with a dedicated A/T hiker and trail angel at the Long Trail Festival. He said that many of the hiker hospitality offers in the South came with an evangelistic approach, and questioning whether he knew Jesus, and that he should do so that if he were struck by lightning, etc.. at least he would know he was going to heaven... I personally was never approached like this, but then again, I have still to hike from just north of Hot Springs to Waynesville, VA, so maybe I have yet to have someone ask me about my faith. I am all right with all sincere believers.

    I think they could do a lot better if they connected with some local social workers, pastors, etc.. If you go to them with a problem--is their solution always going to be, "join us, believe in Yahshua, and be baptised into the body of Messiah"?
    Last edited by greenmtnboy; 08-09-2010 at 18:59.

  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    Actually for the past 4 years, at the Long Trail Festival, I have asked hikers who have stayed there if anyone has even approached them to join. Not one time has has anyone been approached. Granted this is a small sample, ony a dozen, however the claim that they offer this service completely as a method of attracting members is clearly false. It just might be that they actually believe in following Christian beliefs. I know it is hard for cynics to understand this concept.
    Uh wrong. It's more likely that they will wait until approached rather than than pursue recruitment aggressively because the word would obviously get out. NO religion ever does ANYTHING without at least the idea of possible recruitment, or "saving souls" (as some like to call it) in mind...it's part and parcelt of what they are. The missionary goes to Africa to bring christ to the heathens. The food is brought along as an enticement, and many religious folks are obviously kind and sincere people, but that doesn't change the fact that they are spreading religion wherever they can. As far as thruhikers, I didn't figure many being easy to draw in given the thru-hikers individualistic attitude and need to be moving on, especially by Rutland when they have been hiking for 4-5 months and are nearing the completion of their grand endeavor. I highly doubt thru-hikers are very vulnerable to what they're pushing, but ya never know....

  19. #279

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    Quote Originally Posted by bfitz View Post
    NO religion ever does ANYTHING without at least the idea of possible recruitment, or "saving souls" (as some like to call it) in mind...it's part and parcelt of what they are.
    Buddism has no concept of soul, let alone "saving" one. They also could care less if anyone joins or not. You are correct about a no religion doing anything because religion is a belief system which intrinsically itself cannot do anything.

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    Buddism has no concept of soul, let alone "saving" one. They also could care less if anyone joins or not. You are correct about a no religion doing anything because religion is a belief system which intrinsically itself cannot do anything.
    Buddhism isn't technically a religion because it has no deity to worship or pie in the sky when you die if you've been good and submitted to whatever social norms your oppressors wish you to abide by (i.e. wear your burka and shut up).

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