Doggy Harness

[trinzushi]

Hey all,

So me and my fellow 4 legged hiker are looking for some input here. I have a sheltie who absolutely loves hiking and has enjoyed overnighting with my boyfriend and I. I never get a complaint on the trail- Scratch that, I get a ton of complaints in the morning when all he wants to do is hit the trail and all I want to do is take my time eating breakfast. I recently purchased a Ruffwear Approach pack and I have been very careful trying to introduce the pack to him. I don't believe he should have to carry much weight- after all this wasn't his crazy decision.. it was mine! Even though I was told I could start him off with 10% of his weight I started him off with an empty pack. The first few walks I placed it on and tried to associate the pack with fun walks. I then started hiking with the pack and placing empty plastic bags in to 'bulk' up the saddle backs. I slowly worked him up and now I place his food, treats, dish, and leash for a 3 day hike in his pack totaling to a 2.8 lbs. The sheltie weighs 27lbs.

Recently after his first weekend trip with the pack he has decided to make it difficult trying to get the back up and whines and makes a HUGE deal out of it. Once the pack is on he stops acting up and acts as if he never gave me a problem. I can't figure it out. I actually took out a lot of weight and reduced his pack weight to finish out the weekend- I would have taken the pack off completely but we were hiking some difficult terrain that required us helping him via the harness. I'm very careful watching him for any signs of pain, soreness, I do daily belly, armpit, and paw checks to make sure nothings bothering him too much.

With that being said.. I feel like he definitely doesn't like the pack or I did a poor job acclimating him.. either way I am considering ditching the pack and getting him a harness instead. Any recommendations? I'm looking for something with a little more padding than Ruffwear's harness. I need something he definitely can't wiggle out of and something that doesn't have an opening by the handle. The issue with the ruffwear products and that opening is that long haired dogs fur gets caught if you need to hastily grab their pack from the handle.

Thanks everyone! Please no negative comments. I'm looking for input. If the dog shows me any signs that he doesn't want to be on the trail he goes home. I always have a backup on call so they can come pick him up if he shows me he doesn't want to stay out any longer.

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[trinzushi]

Edit: decided to make it difficult trying to get the pack on by backing up and whining, making a HUGE deal out of it.

[FarmerChef]

Only advice I can give from experience is to try reducing the weight to just the pack and try again. Starting with an empty pack and working to acclimate him to pack=fun is very important and it sounds as though you did that. Something then, in the course of your hike, caused him a constant negative association that eventually resulted in him equating pack = pain. In my experience it means too much weight.

Keep in mind that your dog, like my Husky, may have lots of energy and appear to be able to outrun you at the drop of a hat, even for long distances. But unless he is acclimated to walking several miles over the kind of terrain you'll be walking he'll be a bit out of his element. Just like us humans he needs time to acclimate his legs to the new challenge. If he's uncomfortable with that, then the pack can get lumped right in with it even if it's not outright causing the discomfort. I guess what I'm suggesting is that you look at other factors in addition to the pack fit, style, weight, etc. just to make sure you don't have a separate contributor that he's also associating the pack with. Hope that helps.

Oh and pack. We've used an REI pack for 3 years and over 1,500 miles of the AT with our Husky. It's worked great for her minus a few missteps in the beginning as we learned to read her better. Our biggest learn was to not let her carry the water. It's hard to make it comfortable for her unless you use a container that won't allow the water to slosh AND you are careful to constantly rebalance the two sides after you water her. So we just carry her water

[Kookork]

I have a Sheltie also and plan to thru hike AT in 2014 with him. My dog is 14.5 inches tall on his shoulder and weighs 18.5 pounds. Couple of months ago when he was on the heavy side of the weight( 23 ponds but extremely fit by running 5 to 7 mile a day) he had some issues with his pack and did not like it.

I put him on a diet and now that he is 18.5 pounds he has no issue with the pack whatsoever. Just keep in mind that shelties are really vulnerable to complications of heavy weight more than some other Sheepdogs.( they are delicate creatures as you know).

During the warm months of the year I do Not let him carry his pack just because with their double coat I don't want him to be exposed to extra heat. He has never had any issue on trails even during the hot months but I prefer to be on the safe side. He eats 1.2 cups of dog food a day(1.5 while hiking) so carrying 3 to 5 days of his food adds around a pound to my backpack which I can handle.

Looking at the photo it does not seem your dog has any extra weight issue but generally my experience with my Sheltie shows that they are much happier and more energetic when they are lighter.

Consider trying another type of pack if the weight reduction is not working.Dogs like us humans have different body shape and may need different pack that fits them.

Good luck

[The Old Boot]

I wonder if the material on the inside of the pack was pulling at his long hair and pinching/bugging him. If it's something like corduroy it might be pulling back and forth with each step he takes to the point where it's an irritant. I know the corduroy lining of a sling I had to use on my last Collie when he was failing did that a bit.

The other thing, I notice from the picture that the pack hangs way far down his sides, almost like it's way too big for him. He's not very deep in the chest and it might be clanging against his sides. Not enough to leave marks, just enough to be a pita to him.

[atmilkman]

Consider trying another type of pack if the weight reduction is not working.Dogs like us humans have different body shape and may need different pack that fits them.

Good luck

The other thing, I notice from the picture that the pack hangs way far down his sides, almost like it's way too big for him. He's not very deep in the chest and it might be clanging against his sides. Not enough to leave marks, just enough to be a pita to him.

I have a tendency to agree with both of these statements. Looks a little big. Here's some pics of the same pack in a different size that this gal can go all day with. Walls of Jericho Hike 5-29-2011 014.jpgWalls of Jericho Hike 5-29-2011 017.jpgWalls of Jericho Hike 5-29-2011 006.jpg

[Sailing_Faith]

You might stitch up the bottom of the pack, just sew a line across the bottom of both sides. Peter never complained about his, but I could tell by his gate that it was important to keep both sides loaded equally.

sounds like you did everything right, your dog is fortunate to have such a considerate human to hike with.

[Water Rat]

I had one Sheltie who loved her pack and one Sheltie who hated his...until it was on. It might not be anything you did, or didn't do. Shelties are smart - Your big guy may have figured out he likes hiking without a pack better than hiking with a pack. Both of my Shelties loved the trail, but they just sometimes wanted me to be the pack animal and carry their food for them. Told ya they were smart!

[trinzushi]

Wow! So much helpful input! Thank you everyone! I'm sure Champ (the sheltie) will be very grateful of all your good suggestions.

If I reduced his weight any more than I already have he is better off with a harness than carrying around 1.5lbs of pack and nothing in it. Like I said.. It seems that he doesn't seem to care about it once its on.. but trying to get it on is a huge deal. I will be making a trip to REI and trying the REI brands and a smaller version of Ruffwear's pack. After new acclimation with LOTs of treats we will see how he feels about the pack. If he still makes a big deal about the pack then I will ditch it and get him a harness instead. I won't blame him for deciding he'd rather me be his pack mule instead. :-D After all, that's the smart decision!

[trinzushi]

Also, I am hoping to bring him on the 2014 thru hike I am planning! But again.. I have several back ups to get him off trail if needed and I am still doing my research. I am doing SEVERAL practice trips with him to make sure he is up to it. I would hate to end up on the trail and have an unhappy dog. That just makes both of you unhappy.

[kunzman]

I bet if you bought him an ultralight cuben fiber pack he'd stop whining

[Hipcheck]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned.. but you could really start to associate the pack with ALL things good. If you so desire!

Pack on. Breakfast. Pack off.

Pack on. Mid day walk. Pack off.

Pack on. Dinner. Pack off.

Pack on. Late night walk. Pack off.

Putting a pack on before the first morning pee would just be bad parenting! My Diesel thru hiked with me in 2012... He always gets super excited when he sees his pack, shy and aloof while I put it on, and then back to super excited before I even buckle it. Some things don't change!
(PS. I would shave a sheltie for a thru!)
(PPS. Who would ever suggest shaving a sheltie!?! That's just wrong.)

[Wise Old Owl]

ahh the best part of a thread "Wow! So much helpful input!"

HUGE in my book. Glad this is working out.

[Kookork]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned.. but you could really start to associate the pack with ALL things good. If you so desire!

Pack on. Breakfast. Pack off.

Pack on. Mid day walk. Pack off.

Pack on. Dinner. Pack off.

Pack on. Late night walk. Pack off.

Putting a pack on before the first morning pee would just be bad parenting! My Diesel thru hiked with me in 2012... He always gets super excited when he sees his pack, shy and aloof while I put it on, and then back to super excited before I even buckle it. Some things don't change!
(PS. I would shave a sheltie for a thru!)
(PPS. Who would ever suggest shaving a sheltie!?! That's just wrong.)

My sheltie wants to grow beard while thru hiking and I don't see why not....

[gumball]

Here is what my border collie wears for a harness--very secure, but easy on and off for the owner--great supply place for active dogs:

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fu...string=harness

Gum

[shelterbuilder]

Over the last 28 years, I've had a sled dog team (of varying size, depending upon who was too old to run, injured, etc.). From time to time, more than one of the dogs would balk at having the harness put on (first, over the head, then one front leg, then the other front leg). Yet once it's on, there is no problem!!! I finally came to the conclusion that, while they love to run, they don't always want to run IN HARNESS!!!!! Your Sheltie could be developing the same attitude regarding the pack. If so, then you have to make a decision: pack, or no pack - it's just that simple. If you decide to "go packless", then you might want to look into a small size sled dog racing harness. An "X-back" style would probably be your best bet (the webbing crosses the back one or more times in an "x"-shaped configuration, and distributes any loading from a leash evenly across the dog's back). ALSO, consider using a neck-line looped through the harness (to attach the harness to the dog's collar so that if the dog "backs out" of the harness, the dog is still under direct leash-control and can't run off). This may be less of an issue with your Sheltie than it is with my Huskies, but it's worth thinking about. Good luck with "getting inside the dog's head"!

[Two Tents]

Edit: decided to make it difficult trying to get the pack on by backing up and whining, making a HUGE deal out of it.

It sounds like you have a smart dog. Mine went through the same phase. Don't give up. Reward good behavior. Also if I even think the dog does not like something, I'll never call him to come and have getting a bath, medicine, nails cut or putting on his pack , never want him to get something he dislikes as a reward for coming when called. I always go to him when I need to put his pack on. He knows just from that act from me that he needs to be still and listen. It sets the tone for the given task.

[trinzushi]

Thank you everyone again for your input.. I have been trying a ton of positive reinforcement on this pooch. He still does not like putting it on initially but I have found out how to get it on without a huge commotion. I have taken the approach of just walking up to the dog and putting it on. End of story since the 'fun' approach wasn't working. I still make sure fun activities like walks and treats are included when the pack is on. Due to an injury I am out of commission for a short period so unfortunately the dog and I will have less of a chance to physically prepare for the trip. So now I'm preparing to start very slow and work up the mileage as the dog is ready for it. The trail is hard on me- I can only imagine how it is on a dog. The great thing about shelties... they are VOCAL. Champ isn't afraid to tell me if he is tired or if he doesn't like something.. so he keeps the guesswork out. I'll know if I need to ship him home or not.

I took into consideration how low the saddle bags hang. Unfortunately he is the perfect fit for ruffwear's small harness.. and he is a very borderline size for the other packs I have taken into consideration. I have found a cheap ruffwear webmaster harness and a cheap extra small approach pack. I will be attempting to convert it into a "palisades' pack soon. This way he has the appropriate harness.. but smaller saddlebags. I think he'll be happier with that. And I can avoid taking the harness on and off for breaks- I'll just clip off his bags. I think he'll be happier with this as well. I'll keep everyone posted on the finished product!

[4eyedbuzzard]

The great thing about shelties... they are VOCAL.

And some people say WB members are rude. That's such a polite way to describe a Sheltie - "VOCAL". You left out the part about them herding everything on the planet though - including the cats and furniture.

[trinzushi]

Heheh I'm pretty lucky in that aspect. Fortunately Champ's previous household has several small kids all of the time with a little one on the way.. The owner's snapped him out of his herding habits quickly. I don't have much herding to deal with. Just copious amounts of barking, whining, grunting, etc. I do sometimes see the herding tendencies when I rile him up as we play but nothing intense.