pump vs no pump

[aficion]

Because the filter they brought quit working the third time they used it
Because all the other hikers said they didnt need to treat water
Because they felt like a sissy filtering water others were not treating

Because you can go your entire life drinking unfiltered untreated water from these mountains with no ill effect, as I have. Carry some aqua mira for those few times you can't find decent water. Easy peasy lemon squeasy.(sic intentional).

[squeezebox]

There have been proven cases of Giarda from unfiltered water, this proves the risk of drinking unfiltered water, maybe you'll be next. you do not know there's not a dead animal just upstream in the stream.

[aficion]

There have been proven cases of Giarda from unfiltered water, this proves the risk of drinking unfiltered water, maybe you'll be next. you do not know there's not a dead animal just upstream in the stream.

Drink from the source..... not downstream......simple.

[magic_game03]

Because you can go your entire life drinking unfiltered untreated water from these mountains with no ill effect, as I have. Carry some aqua mira for those few times you can't find decent water. Easy peasy lemon squeasy.(sic intentional).

Yea, you have no ill effect because you are most likely a host carrier. Most host carriers get it at some point and it feels like a bad meal, their body adjust and now they are the carrier of the giardia parasite. If left untreated they go about life as if everything is normal but all the while carrying the parasite and infecting others.

Drink from the source..... not downstream......simple.

another moronic answer. First giardia may exist in the intestines of a dead animal but that's not it's mode of transportation. Giardia is spread through fecal matter (poop.) So unless this magical water source is flowing from the sky there are wild animals that go to the water source itself, just like you, and drink…and poop. People walk around the water source spreading it even more. And this does not even account for animals pooping uphill from the water source and the giardia getting washed down into the water source (spring).

I'm not calling you stupid, but I am calling you uneducated about the matter and most likely a host carrier.

[Wise Old Owl]

Years ago my son saw a super clear pool of water bubbling from the ground 1/2 way up the mountain... Didn't have a filter...he asked if it was ok - Nothing above it coming right out of the side of the wall. So I said sure.... we both got sick about five days later.

[magic_game03]

Years ago my son saw a super clear pool of water bubbling from the ground 1/2 way up the mountain... Didn't have a filter...he asked if it was ok - Nothing above it coming right out of the side of the wall. So I said sure.... we both got sick about five days later.

This is a great example of how pervasive giardia really is. Let's start with the fact that the giardia parasite dies in freezing temperatures so while the wilderness cleans it's slate every freeze there are many wild animals that harbor this parasite throughout the winter months. A lot of these pipes that come out of moss covered walls are technically cisterns. Behind that wall is a larger well of water…. that the local rodents have spent years making all kinds of cave networks to. Every time you visit a well used campsite or shelter area that has one of those seemingly well covered cisterns… expect the rodents have worked out the back side for easy access to the water so they don't get eaten.

[aficion]

Yea, you have no ill effect because you are most likely a host carrier. Most host carriers get it at some point and it feels like a bad meal, their body adjust and now they are the carrier of the giardia parasite. If left untreated they go about life as if everything is normal but all the while carrying the parasite and infecting others.





another moronic answer. First giardia may exist in the intestines of a dead animal but that's not it's mode of transportation. Giardia is spread through fecal matter (poop.) So unless this magical water source is flowing from the sky there are wild animals that go to the water source itself, just like you, and drink…and poop. People walk around the water source spreading it even more. And this does not even account for animals pooping uphill from the water source and the giardia getting washed down into the water source (spring).

I'm not calling you stupid, but I am calling you uneducated about the matter and most likely a host carrier.

Moronic, stupid.... call me what you will. I am happy, healthy, and blessed. The water that god's creatures share is good enough for me. I have filtered water in the Bahamas. I have treated water in the Appalachians, rarely. Most places I hike have plenty of good clean spring water. Sorry for the misfortune of others, and recommend doing what you like.

[atmilkman]

Warren Doyle considers himself blessed to be carrying the giardia parasite.

[magic_game03]

I would suspect that if there is a God that he/she/it only blesses those who are willing to use the good sense that he/she/it gave them, other wise know as a brain, for good use. Else, if God has blessed us with a good life and brains that he/she/it would be very disappointed that some of use refuse to use good sense and our brains to recognize that disease and parasites exist.

If you have been drinking from the water sources as you calm, I suggest you use your Obama care and go get the $5 dollars worth of drugs you need to clean out your tank. Unfortunately, years of persistent giardia in your system will weaken the intestine. And a weak intestine make you more susceptible to issues like colon cancer, a really nasty way to die.

[aficion]

This is a great example of how pervasive giardia really is. Let's start with the fact that the giardia parasite dies in freezing temperatures so while the wilderness cleans it's slate every freeze there are many wild animals that harbor this parasite throughout the winter months. A lot of these pipes that come out of moss covered walls are technically cisterns. Behind that wall is a larger well of water…. that the local rodents have spent years making all kinds of cave networks to. Every time you visit a well used campsite or shelter area that has one of those seemingly well covered cisterns… expect the rodents have worked out the back side for easy access to the water so they don't get eaten.

Don't drink untreated water from pipes or cisterns. Just not smart.

[aficion]

I would suspect that if there is a God that he/she/it only blesses those who are willing to use the good sense that he/she/it gave them, other wise know as a brain, for good use. Else, if God has blessed us with a good life and brains that he/she/it would be very disappointed that some of use refuse to use good sense and our brains to recognize that disease and parasites exist.

If you have been drinking from the water sources as you calm, I suggest you use your Obama care and go get the $5 dollars worth of drugs you need to clean out your tank. Unfortunately, years of persistent giardia in your system will weaken the intestine. And a weak intestine make you more susceptible to issues like colon cancer, a really nasty way to die.

I'm not sure I'm the one who needs a good cleanse. Do appreciate the good will though. May you stay, forever young.

[Dogwood]

.... I'm not trying to spend 5 minutes digging out a trough at a water spot just to stick a cup in to fill my water bag. I have been thinking of a gravity filter system but still, is a pump ultimately more user friendly on the trail?

Absolutely NOT based on the context in which you asked this question! AT water sources are frequent, well documented, and the VAST MAJORITY make it easy to capture water with a Nalgene, water bottle, and prolly a Camelback Reservoir.

[Dogwood]

"Yea, you have no ill effect because you are most likely a host carrier."

WOW. Did u just say what I think u said? You are telling people because they don't have symptoms of Giardasis therefore that suggests they most likely host Giardia.

[Dogwood]

Once again we're going off on tangents. This is not about how or if to treat AT water sources. I think the OP was asking the question about obtaining or capturing water. I think the OP sees AT water sources as mostly being so shallow and is looking at pumping water as the only way to capture the water.

[Dogwood]

First IMO AT water sources are not mostly that shallow, typically a good variety of water sources are available(springs(a good many deeper ones), creeks, rivers, deeper ponds/lakes, small but deep enough rivulets, etc) and there are various ways in which to capture the water even IF the water source is shallow that one DOES NOT need to pump water to capture it. Save the treating of water for a different thread.

[squeezebox]

I did not know that if you get a giardia infection that does not present, it can still last in you gut for years/ decades and cause colin cancer pre-maturely.
I do not want to die from drinking dirty water ,next week , or in 25 years.

[Dogwood]

"...years of persistent giardia in your system will weaken the intestine. And a weak intestine make you more susceptible to issues like colon cancer, a really nasty way to die." -magic game

I did not know that if you get a giardia infection that does not present, it can still last in you gut for years/ decades and cause colin cancer pre-maturely.
I do not want to die from drinking dirty water ,next week , or in 25 years.

I would like to see medical studies or peer reviewed studies that make a connection with or correlation between Giardia and colon cancer. Can you provide where you get this information or reach this conclusion based on medical studies? Don't see that anywhere in medical literature. Am I missing something? I don't notice the American medical community implying a significant risk of getting colon cancer from Giardia. Help me out. How are you getting to your conclusion?

[HooKooDooKu]

Absolutely NOT based on the context in which you asked this question! AT water sources are frequent, well documented, and the VAST MAJORITY make it easy to capture water with a Nalgene, water bottle, and prolly a Camelback Reservoir.

Sure, when water is flowing freely.

But there's been several times I've been in the GSMNP (both on and off the AT) where water levels are low... low as in there is no water flowing out of pipes that have been knocked into natural springs.

Now I'm new to trying to capture water in a bag and trying to filter it with a Sawyer. Before this, I've spent my entire hiking life using the Sweetwater pump. When water levels are down, a pump makes easy work of getting water. You don't need much... just a flowing water source, even if it's just flowing over the ground. Simple scoop out a small impression to create the smallest of pools, place your pump intake in the pool, and start pumping.

I've found it very easy to use a pump with extremely low water levels (as in water levels so low, you have to hike 100 yards down hill from the 'normal' water source to find any flowing water).

But recently, I was on a hike where we stayed at Siler's Bald shelter and Spence Field shelter with low water levels trying to use a bag and a Sawyer filter. Siler's Bald proved to not be too difficult because the terrain around the spring is steep enough that I only had to walk a short distance down hill to find a spot where the water was falling at least a few inches to easily catch in the bag. But at Spence Field, the ground was relatively smooth... by the time the water reaches spots farther down hill where you might find a drop, the water had dispersed. It was VERY difficult (without resorting to digging a big hole and using a scoop of some sort) to get water in a bag for filtration. A pump at the Spence Field would have made quick work of obtaining water. But it took me a very long time to get water using just a bag... and then it had lots of silt and leaf particles in it. It was a time I would have been much better off with a pump.

However, I will say that while obtaining water at Spence Field took quite a while, I did it, and did it without having to dig a huge spot and scooping. So I would say that anywhere you are likely able to utilize a pump, you should be able to collect water for non-pump means. But expect it to take longer.

[Papa D]

Here are the pros of a pump:

They sometimes pump a bottle with clear potable water.
They can be used as an emergency boat anchor.

Here are the cons of a pump:

Most will break with enough use even if you are careful
They weigh way too much
They will cross-contaminate even if you are finicky about such things
They don't work below freezing - they just freeze
They clog regardless of how careful you are and how many tea bags, coffee filters and rubber bands you use.
They can't collect water so you have to find a source that your pre-filter will rest in or you have to filter out of a cook-pot which is a hassle if you're thirsty
They cost a bunch of money and are made of plastic crap from China and the replacement filters cost a bunch too.

So, the answer is NO PUMP

Here are sensible alternatives:

1) Evaluate your water source: Are you very high on a mountain at a spring coming out of rock? Just drink it - you are 99.9% good to go in my opinion
2) If you need to treat, consider about 2 drops of bleach per quart - it's super cheap, lightweight, available anywhere and will purify your water.
3) Aqua Mira is also a product to consider - it's a tad more pricy than beach but will get the thumbs up from the more chemically savvy folks.
4) Consider just pre-mixing aqua-mira - this way, the stuff activates in advance - I just pre-mix enough for a few days - my guess is that if you keep pre-mix for
too long it might not work (FWIW)
5) Consider a steri-pen - these work with ultra violent light and are much better than a filter - I have one that I got as a gift and while I'm still a "just drink it" or maybe
use aqua-mira person, the steri pen has merit.
6) Consider sprinkling a few drops of crystal light or gatorade powder into water you chemically treat to rid it of the chemical taste
7) Remember that if you are cooking with water and boil it, it's good to go - just a rolling boil is enough - - the 7 minutes rolling boil (or 10) is an old wives tale.

[Dogwood]

Hookoodooku, are U familiar with various ways in capturing water from a seep, shallow puddle, dank from a shallow depression in a rock, the inside curve of a dry surface river, dew from a surface? No pump needed. Convenient for some to capture water but is it absolutely really needed and if so how often on an AT thru-hike? Are U aware of how many reliable water sources and with what frequency they are documented in the AT Thru-Hikers Handbook? How about how many more exist that aren't documented? How many water sources are available with 1/4 - 1/2 mile of the AT tread? U do not need a pump to capture water on the AT with regularity IMHO.