Impact of Freezer Bags vs Dish Washing

[DuneElliot]

My apologies for the assumption regarding the privvies...I was under the impression they were same kind of outhouses/toilets we have here at NF campsites in the west that get pumped, just like a septic tank would. I think some are composting, but not most

[Another Kevin]

My apologies for the assumption regarding the privvies...I was under the impression they were same kind of outhouses/toilets we have here at NF campsites in the west that get pumped, just like a septic tank would. I think some are composting, but not most

Nope! The commonest sort of privy on the Eastern trails looks like this. A box over a hole in the ground.

A lot of the AT ones are fancier and at least have some sort of outhouse to keep you out of the wind and rain. But a lot are of the 'plain wooden box' variety.

(P.S. For what it's worth, that isn't my picture. But I've left a deposit at that very privy. I remember it because it seemed that on that section of trail, the streams were less than 400 feet apart, so I was having a hard time finding a suitable spot for a cathole. The little sign indicating a side trail and saying '<- TOILET' was a relief!)

[DuneElliot]

Thanks for the clarification...and since that is the case, then no I agree with the sentiment to not throw soap in them.

[DuneElliot]

This is what I was thinking of, and what is common here:

[Cheyou]

Not many places a truck could get in on the AT to pump it out. All the shelter material are usually carried in by workers.

[garlic08]

I'm chuckling about drinking the dishwater. It's a conflict between my wife and me. It all started in a dry camp on a desert hike, where I'd humped the dishwashing water 20 miles and the next water was 10 miles away the next day. I'll be damned if I'm going to dump that water on the ground! It even had a few food particles in it for good measure. Grossed her out, still does just thinking about it.

FBC waste bothers me, but Kevin is right, it's negligible compared to the fossil fuel burned traveling to go hiking. Still I pride myself on minimizing waste in my pack. I once finished a seven-day, 175 mile hike with all my trash fitting into the empty peanut butter jars. I also had a handful of clean ziplocks that came home and got reused.

I buy oats in the box at nearly every town stop, and repackage it into a ziplock or two. Throwing away the box bothers me, but the only place I could find to buy bulk oats on the AT was at the Co-op in Hanover. Sometimes I buy instant mashed potatoes in a large box. I never buy bars, or anything individually wrapped. About the only thing I don't repackage is peanut butter. On a long hike, the packaging waste adds up.

[Coffee]

You know what really bothers me when I return from a hike ... I go from having a quart size ziplock of trash for 5-7 days to filling huge 13 gallon trash bags at least once a week! And I do recycle! What we do in the wilderness pales in comparison to everyday life in terms of carbon footprint.

[Puddlefish]

You know what really bothers me when I return from a hike ... I go from having a quart size ziplock of trash for 5-7 days to filling huge 13 gallon trash bags at least once a week! And I do recycle! What we do in the wilderness pales in comparison to everyday life in terms of carbon footprint.

I'm the opposite. I use far less plastic and trashy trash at home. My staples are bulk dried beans, rice and such, so I might toss out one bag a month. I make my own fresh soups, salad dressings and sauces. Make my own pizza crust and bread. Fresh veggies from the local farm stand. Don't eat anything canned. Don't often drink beer, never drink soda. I compost a whole lot, even though I don't currently have a garden. I'm also not eating dehydrated food at home, which is an energy intensive storage method.

It's not that I'm particularly earthy crunchy, I just like eating real food, and this is the cheapest way to do so.

[Coffee]

I'm the opposite. I use far less plastic and trashy trash at home. My staples are bulk dried beans, rice and such, so I might toss out one bag a month. I make my own fresh soups, salad dressings and sauces. Make my own pizza crust and bread. Fresh veggies from the local farm stand. Don't eat anything canned. Don't often drink beer, never drink soda. I compost a whole lot, even though I don't currently have a garden. I'm also not eating dehydrated food at home, which is an energy intensive storage method.

It's not that I'm particularly earthy crunchy, I just like eating real food, and this is the cheapest way to do so.

That's awesome. My diet isn't that great consisting of mostly packaged or processed goods, mainly from Trader Joe's.

[Dogwood]

First, sorry if this is in the wrong place, I didn't see a LNT forum per-se.

I've been contemplating the impact of using Freezer Bag Cooking (and packing out the used freezer bags obviously) vs the impact of a little ivory soap and water to wash my pot after dinner. Given the assumptions that 1) soapy water used would be disposed of down the privy if possible and disbursed 200' away from a body of water. 2) I'm going to be using some soapy water anyway to clean up (I wear contact lenses) and 3) it isn't likely many trail-heads / trail towns will offer the "plastic bag recycling" necessary to recycle ziplock (generic not brand) freezer bags I'm thinking I'd probably have much less impact washing my dishes each night.

That being said my experience is limited almost to the point of non-existence so I am interested in the thoughts of others on the topic.

How do you minimize the impact of freezer bags if you use them? Am I wrong about recycling opportunities along the AT?

Thanks

Ed

Thank you for your consideration. I would like to observe others doing it more.

I've considered your points for myself. This is what works for me.

Along the AT you'll locate a garbage can or appropriate waste disposal receptacle with regularity so carrying much trash for an unnecessary amount time is an exaggerated misconception. Even in places like the 100 Mile Wilderness you can break up resupply AND vastly, for the most part, dump trash legally at each resupply pt so I don't let that scenario overly concern me. Plus, on the AT I tend to resupply every 3-5 days with my best guess being many ATers can also resupply very 5-7 days on average so with some hindsight into on trail garbage creation and disposal one does not have to accumulate large amounts of trash. About every 5 days my on trail trash entirely easily fits into a sandwich size Ziploc. For those who accumulate food and other trash between longer resupplies I think it makes greater sense to address your concern. 98-99% of all my trash on trail can easily be burnt as AK said. Since all my resupplies aren't mailed I save Ziplocs and rubber bands from a mailed resupply to be used at the the next resupply which is bought on the fly. I don't do FBC. I don't like having to deal with plastic bags containing wet food.

At least 50% of my on trail food is bought from bulk bins. This easily saves on packaging waste at the point of sale compared to buying the incredible amounts of pre packaged highly processed highly refined food/food like products MANY hikers rely! If one is that concerned about packaging waste this is to be considered from that perspective alone! I recycle the bags I get there, as well as rubber bands, and silk gel anti desiccant packets saved from vitamin supplements, other foods, etc. I reduce excess packaging, which IMHO is much better from several perspectives, if I do it at home. Much easier finding acceptable plastic bag recycling at home although if the plastic bags I have are clean many large grocery stores recycle bags by the front door know a days.

Another way I reduce trash on trail and gain better overall energy, health and nutrition is by growing my own sprouts as I hike. It's simple. http://outdoorherbivore.com/trail-sprouts/

This way doesn't come without other waste consequences though. Every mailed resupply box which is about every 3-4th resupply creates cardboard waste recycling, entail carbon usage in transportation and teh cost off mailing. Se
la vie. At least I'm considering things.

AK and Rainman covered the NO SOAP, even if biodegradable soap, in a privy or water source. BUT, there's an assumption a cook pot must be washed out with soap and/or water. I may use water to wash out a Snow Peak MINI Solo TI pot and OR TI spork and dispose of appropriately, perhaps at a grey water site which may be existing or one that I'll designate but water IS NOT ALWAYS needed to effectively clean out cookware on trail. I've used clean beach sand on coastal hikes, desert sand on desert hikes, a small handful of clean sand from the bottom of a dry stream, dried grasses, needled evergreens, handfuls of asst. pebbles/gravel, etc. Then I'll give a wiping and drying with a small microfiber ditty cloth I resalvaged that came from a pr of sunglasses. Another small microfiber lens cloth wipes off my sunglasses, electronic screens, etc. At about every third town stop, which is about every 10 -14 days I sterilize cookware with a few drops of bleach or H202 and throw the microfiber ditty cloth in the laundry possibly rinsing every once in a while on trail as needed. When I do use water to clean my cookware I do as Coffee and Garlic. I want every crumb of nutrient from my on trail food as well as appreciate the additional water. More often than not I drink my cookware water. In some cases I may use a dedicated gray water dump area usually at a CG. Other times I disperse the small amount, about 1/2 cp, grey water on the ground where it doesn't affect drinking water or where others may camp. I personally don't like doing this though as food residues or odors can attract wildlife. In more than 30k U.S. trail miles which includes the entire AT and every geographical U.S. region I've NEVER NEVER NOT ONCE used ANY kind of soap to wash out or clean my own cookware on trail.

I'm all for considering the ecological consequences of our actions but lets not blow things out of proportion especially as it compares to some of our likely other activities.

[Traillium]

Great thinking about impact. Much appreciated

… snip … snip … snip …

Maybe we should start a thread on advanced, lazy-person, easy, and environmentally responsible food prep? I'd love some creative ideas on minimizing food processing and prep impact without too much effort.

Great comments! I certainly am struggling with this topic myself …


Bruce Traillium, brucetraillium.wordpress.com

[Traillium]

Just Bill's procedures seem the most doable for me. Lots of other good stuff from the rest. Thanks!

(A dishwater drinker myself …)


Bruce Traillium, brucetraillium.wordpress.com

[Heliotrope]

Coffee, thanks that's helpful but what about washing your hands. Do you use soap and water or an alcohol based germ killer? (The alcohol stuff doesn't really work well with contact lenses, talk about feeling the burn)

I wear contacts on the trail. I carry a 15 mL micro dropper of bronners soap. I do not wash my hands. I simply use one drop of the soap on my finger tips and work it for 5 seconds or so then rinse with a little water. I only need my finger tips to insert/remove contacts.


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[zelph]

I do not use freezer bags and routinely cook in my Jetboil. I do what many long distance hikers do to clean up. For breakfast, I eat oatmeal first and clean out as much as I can with my spoon. Then I boil water in the same pot for coffee (without cleaning the pot) and drink the coffee. Almost all of the oatmeal residue is gone at that point and I dry it with a bandana. For dinner, I cook my meal in the pot and afterwards add a bit of water and clean out the rest with my fingers and then drink the water. Gross sounding, I know, I know, but it really isn't all that bad. Note that I am meticulous about washing my hands prior to doing any meal preparation; otherwise this could cause illness. Any bacterial residue left in the pot after drying that could cause illness should be killed the next time I boil water.

If you can get past the "gross" factor this is basically zero impact - no wastewater, no freezer bags to dispose of, just small zip locks for the food to be held in prior to cooking.

This is what I've been doing for the past three years on many long hikes.

Here is a great video showing how to clean a pot:

Shug at his finest :-)

[Coffee]

Here is a great video showing how to clean a pot:

Shug at his finest :-)

LOL - I feel better about my method (identical) now!

[egilbe]

LOL - I feel better about my method (identical) now!

I do the same thing. No wasted calories or wasted, filtered water. I cringe everytime I see someone cook pasta and then dump the excess water out on the ground near where they are camping. I've tried to educate a few fellow hikers I think may be open to suggestion about cooking and cleaning up on the trail.

[MtDoraDave]

The dishwater drinkers vs the non dishwater drinkers is cracking me up. I, too, drink the "dishwater", but my hiking partner can't even watch me do it! lol

[Coffee]

So here's one more LNT issue to consider: Toothpaste. I tend to use a very tiny amount when on trail and I often swallow rather than spit, but not always. On one occasion this year, I had stomach trouble after swallowing a small amount of toothpaste. If I have to spit, I make a small hole away from trail, water, and campsites and fill over with dirt. What does everyone else do?

[Sandy of PA]

Toothpaste is not required for good dental hygiene, swallowing fluoride is a very bad idea. I brush with plain water floss well, no problems. Use baking soda if I want them whiter, on the trail and at home.

[Coffee]

Toothpaste is not required for good dental hygiene, swallowing fluoride is a very bad idea. I brush with plain water floss well, no problems. Use baking soda if I want them whiter, on the trail and at home.

That's what I've heard but I need to brush with at least a little toothpaste to feel clean. Maybe it is a force of habit. I could do without on short trips but not for a long hike. I do always floss, every night.