Thoughts on Bear Spray

[Sarcasm the elf]

Most of my life, I've always hear you never want to come between a mother bear and her cubs, and this statement would be repeated for areas (such as GSMNP and the AT) where only black bears are present.

But recent discussions here on WB (that predate the recent attack on a teen in GSMNP) set that record strait. The details behind WHY female black bears do not protect their young from humans is because cubs will climb a tree to avoid danger. Mom knows this, and she'll either climb a tree of her own, run and hide, or maybe bluff charge you to scare you off. But she knows the cubs are safe up a tree and there is no reason to confront the danger (i.e. YOU).

100% Agree. Just to add a bit of perspective about black bears, remember that they really are omnivores that eat a plant heavy diet, they were never really major predators and this makes sense if you think about it in the context of when they evolved. Until humans first entered North America there were a number of large predator species that dominated the land including the (huge) American shortnosed bear, the sabertooth tiger, the American lion, several larger wolf species usually referred to as dire wolves, as well as a number of other species.

Back then, black bears were only mid way up the food chain and survived by fleeing danger first and asking questions later. It wasn't until humans entered the scene and killed off the most dangerous animals that black bears became the most powerful creature in the Eastern woods, purely by default. The reason that black bears survive to this day is largely because of their instinct to run away, they never posed enough of a threat to early humans or to later european settlers to warrant being killed off entirely.

[Harrison Bergeron]

if everyone carried it, only 2 people per year out of thousands would have the chance, and it wouldnt even be ready to use so it wouldnt be.

Heres a naughty secret, bear spray doesnt work all that well. It deters a bear momentarily. For a minute or two, because it usually isnt really good exposure due to distance. They WILL come back, and keep coming if they are after food. You will run out of spray. Whats plan B? There is no replacement for good habits.

A couple of years ago in the GSMNP, a bear and yearling took a pack while hikers were setting up tents. There was about a dozen people present. One of them had bear spray, they managed to use the spray to retrieve the pack from the bears. There are some photos on here of some chewed items I recall.

The bears kept coming back. They hung around the shelter all night, even after being sprayed repeatedly.

The next day the shelter was closed for several months.

The only part of that story I can believe is the part where they got their pack back. And that it happened in the GSMNP. And that nobody got hurt.

If the bears really "hung around all night after repeated spraying" how come the story didn't end with a dead hiker when the spray ran out? Did someone leap on the bear's back and poke him in the eye or something?

Sounds like a success story that grew a little more interesting with every telling, if you ask me.

[MuddyWaters]

The only part of that story I can believe is the part where they got their pack back. And that it happened in the GSMNP. And that nobody got hurt.

If the bears really "hung around all night after repeated spraying" how come the story didn't end with a dead hiker when the spray ran out? Did someone leap on the bear's back and poke him in the eye or something?

Sounds like a success story that grew a little more interesting with every telling, if you ask me.

Nope, there was a shelter full of hikers with bears pacing back and forth in front of it all night. There were thruhikers present that posted here, and pictures of the pack and items from it that were chewed, clawed, etc. on here.


bears want easy high calorie food, not people. This is why they dont pose a significant threat most of the time.

[atj_Hiker]

I agree that the chances of being killed by a black bear is very unlikely. Being concerned about hypothermia or running out of food/water are things you really need to focus on to survive. Even if being killed by a bear is one in a million, I'm carrying mace. Someone has to be the one in a million and I have a family to support when I get back home. I train enough in advance that getting a couple minute head start in a race after spraying the mace will get me a ways down the trail. I think a bear would get tired of that routine after a few times. I like what many say on this forum. Hike your own hike!

[rickb]

I don't know much about bear spray, but if you do decide to carry a smaller defensive OC spray, probably worth it to get the good stuff. Fox Labs is one good brand.

[MuddyWaters]

If it makes someone feel better, carry it.

The heaviest things you carry arent physical. They are mental worries.

As you free your mind of worries, your physical load gets lighter too.


How come people dont worry as much about dieing of heart disease, which will kill 1 man out of every 4, as they do being attacked by a bear?

[Sarcasm the elf]

If it makes someone feel better, carry it.

The heaviest things you carry arent physical. They are mental worries.

As you free your mind of worries, your physical load gets lighter too.


How come people dont worry as much about dieing of heart disease, which will kill 1 man out of every 4, as they do being attacked by a bear?

Because of the fallacy of misleading vividness.

[atj_Hiker]

I would be perfectly fine dying on the trail of a heart attack. The dying doesn't worry me. I want to know I did everything I could to take care of my family that I have more control over. Dying of natural causes is not my fault. Even with the fact I put myself in a place where I have no medical care available. You can't bring an ambulance on the trail. I'm not going to let worrying about a heart attack stop me from enjoying life while I can. Speaking of taking care of my family, I need to get to work! Enjoyed the conversation!

[MuddyWaters]

I would be perfectly fine dying on the trail of a heart attack. The dying doesn't worry me. I want to know I did everything I could to take care of my family that I have more control over. Dying of natural causes is not my fault. Even with the fact I put myself in a place where I have no medical care available. You can't bring an ambulance on the trail. I'm not going to let worrying about a heart attack stop me from enjoying life while I can. Speaking of taking care of my family, I need to get to work! Enjoyed the conversation!

Heart disease is hardly a" natural "cause.
Heredity may play a big part, but its mostly attributable to poor modern eating habits, something 100% in everyones control. People are too weak minded to eat healthy, drink alcohol, are overweight, or some smoke, then they worry about 1 - in -a -million freak things while ignoring the things that will likely kill them.

I would rather be killed by a bear, than die of a heart attack behind a desk. As long as said bear gets away without prosecution of course.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Given my family history I probably have an 70% chance of dying of a heart attack.

Matthew Mcconaughey's father died of a heart attack peacefully napping after making love to his wife while skipping work on a Monday morning. The way I see it, if I have to choose how I die, it will be a toss-up between this and being killed by a black bear while wrestling over possession of my foodbag. Sadly only one of the two would make the news.

[HooKooDooKu]

... The dying doesn't worry me. I want to know I did everything I could to take care of my family that I have more control over...

Then forget the mace/bear spray and make sure you have a good term life insurance policy that is large enough to take care of your family. Then you are covered for both bears and heart attack.

[atj_Hiker]

Sorry guys but I do take good care of myself by eating right, exercising and have good life insurance. All the things I can control. I could still die of a heart attack although I don't have any family history with this. If I was single and had no responsibilities to a family, I wouldn't waste my time with the mace. I've been around enough black bears in the wild to know it's very unlikely but still possible. When I have two boys I love and have to be prepared to protect from anything, I would never be able to forgive myself if one was killed by a bear and I didn't have mace that weighs nothing. A bear can kill you with one blow. To say life insurance is enough to replace me is a lack of understanding of the value of life and relationship. I still say "Hike your own hike".

[Fredt4]

Nope, there was a shelter full of hikers with bears pacing back and forth in front of it all night. There were thruhikers present that posted here, and pictures of the pack and items from it that were chewed, clawed, etc. on here.


bears want easy high calorie food, not people. This is why they dont pose a significant threat most of the time.

Your story is credible as I had a Mexican Standoff with three (perhaps it was four) bears in the Smokies years ago. I don't believe anyone killed by a black bear had bear spray. Yes, I know no one carrying shark repellent has been killed either. There have been many incidents where bear spray was used successfully. I carry bear spray as they're lighter than guns and basically I feel the need for some protection against dogs and two legged predators. The women killed in the Smokies might be alive if she had bear spray and had an opportunity to use it. It's possible that she wouldn't had been able to use it, or that it wouldn't had been effective. The basic problem of analysing bear attacks is that they're so rare that just about anything said is usually supposition and there's no guarantee that bears will comply with our supposition. Common knowledge tells many that black bears will attack you to protect their cubs or that they will attack you for your food, but the data shows that's not true. Another point to consider is that the kid in the hammock was sleeping and the woman was hiking. Most attacks involve persons that are not camping. Actually most attacks involve persons actively messing with the bears.

[rickb]

I have a Fenix PD35 flashlight.

It doesn't weight that much and is good for lighting up moose on the far side of the pond, and signaling people in the next county.

I figure if if a bear is ever around my tent at night I can blind the SOB with the tactical flash setting and then kick him in the balls if needed.

It is also useful for discovering that certain bear-like sounds are not what you think they are, if you have a get up and investigate personality.

it's good to be a weekender.

[baumfamily]

I did not carry by Bear Spray when I hiked the Grat Smoky Mountains last year but after reading about the 16 year old boy being pulled from his hammock by a black bear in June I will have it with me now. Luckly his father punched the bear repeatedly until the bear let his son go.

[MkBibble]

I've never carried it, and the only bear I saw on the AT ran away so fast that I couldn't even get a picture. But, you might want to take it along just in case - as insurance; if a bear eats your kid, your wife is going to be REALLY mad at you.

[tdoczi]

I agree that the chances of being killed by a black bear is very unlikely. Being concerned about hypothermia or running out of food/water are things you really need to focus on to survive. Even if being killed by a bear is one in a million, I'm carrying mace. Someone has to be the one in a million and I have a family to support when I get back home. I train enough in advance that getting a couple minute head start in a race after spraying the mace will get me a ways down the trail. I think a bear would get tired of that routine after a few times. I like what many say on this forum. Hike your own hike!

if you follow through with this plan what you will do, if anything, is cause a bear that otherwise would have left you alone to chase you down and maul you because you pissed it off. you arent going to outrun it. if a bear is actually trying to menace you (highly unlikely) don't run. and definitely don't climb a tree. don't play dead with a black bear either.

[rickb]

if you follow through with this plan what you will do, if anything, is cause a bear that otherwise would have left you alone to chase you down and maul you because you pissed it off. you arent going to outrun it. if a bear is actually trying to menace you (highly unlikely) don't run. and definitely don't climb a tree. don't play dead with a black bear either.

Swiss Army knives don't help. At least not for the woman doctor in Canada whose husband was trying to rescue her about 10 years ago with one.

Not sure my Spyderco will work much better sometime you just got to make do.

[Five Tango]

It's a personal choice.Some people subscribe to the school of "better to have it and not need it......"Some think they would just rather not carry a few extra ounces.In any event there has probably been heavier items carried by people that did not have near the potential for usefulness later.

[ChuckT]

Unless you encounter a female with cub there shouldn't be a problem. Only close up and personal with a bear I've _ever_ seen was in the Smokeys and I'd be willing to bet that was because folks were feeding it there.😠
The other 3-4 times all I've noted is the racket or maybe the tail of one going away.
A little common sense - don't mess with critters, goes a long way.